Aging imports headed for MLS?

rodderzzz

Brenton said:

rodderzzz said: anybody who doubts the contribution he'll make either hasn't seen him play or doesn't have a brain in their head.

Hands up if you've seen him play...

I haven't. Not even a youtube clip. I hope he's good. But a lot of us are counting on it because other people say he's good, not because they've seen him play. I'll withhold judgment until I see him play, as should everyone else.

Ive seen him about 10 times, and if he plays with the same intelligence and intensity he played with at Celtic and Boro he'll eat midfields all over the MLS.

Bad_Gones

Agree on the DP issue. Different standard ... which I think for many fans is impossible to meet.

rodderzzz

What Bili doesn't seem to grasp is the standard of the MLS compared to England, most MLS teams would be midtable League 1 sides in England, with the best maybe struggling at the bottom of The Championship. Now, if, a middle table League 1 side signed Robson, that would be a great signing for them. Do you see what I'm saying?

You're doubting the quality of the player without considering the quality of the league.

OldFan

rodderzzz said: What Bili doesn't seem to grasp is the standard of the MLS compared to England, most MLS teams would be midtable League 1 sides in England, with the best maybe struggling at the bottom of The Championship. Now, if, a middle table League 1 side signed Robson, that would be a great signing for them. Do you see what I'm saying?

You're doubting the quality of the player without considering the quality of the league.

My point as well. I do think most MLS clubs would be lower table Championship or even League 1. Nothing wrong with that. So Robson is playing at a high enough level to make an impact here.

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-05-25 11:40:10

We haven’t seen Robson play yet, and given the Jarju Debacle and unmerited expectation which accompanied it, tempered optimism is reasonable and prudent. I don’t know how good Robson is, but I do like the things I’ve heard about him, and if he is as described, then he is probably what we need most right now. The last two highly touted signings (Le Toux and Lee) have been as advertised and lived up to my expectations, so I have no reason not to expect the same from Robson. Why? Because . . .

1 - The England Tier II is, according to people who know best, one of the top ten “leagues” in the world in terms of quality, and IIRC it’s one of the top ten in terms of finances. There are three promoted “breakaway” teams in England Tier II this season (Reading, Southampton, West Ham), but after them the top half are all within 10 points or so of each other, so this is a fairly balanced competition, not the Danish or Croatian league in terms of talent disparity. Look at how well recently promoted Norwich City and Swansea City fared this season, and you can see that the teams in the bottom half of the England Tier I and the top half of the England Tier II are very evenly matched in terms of talent. While the world’s top league can be debated (Germany? England? Spain? Italy?), consensus is that the deepest two divisions are in England.

2 - Robson is the best player on a top third team in England Tier II. His team’s fans are unanimous on this. I’d say that, given where he’s coming from and his international caps, he’s on par or ahead of most of the signings that come to MLS from elsewhere (minus the obvious very high profile ones like Beckham, Henry, or Keane). I’d say De Viao is a higher profile signing from Bologna, but probably not by much.

3 - Players from the UK (or UK leagues) adapt better to MLS than average, whether people want to accept that or not.

4 - Like YP Lee, Barry Robson appears to be coming to Vancouver not to retire, but because he wants to experience North America and build a life, family, and coaching career here. This isn’t the NASL circa 1980 - people coming here from Europe or elsewhere (Martin Rennie, YP Lee, David Beckham, many of the South Americans in MLS, etc) are committed to living here, and are above-average players and coaches, not just floaters looking for an easy paycheque (Jarju, Rafa Marques, etc). Given Robson’s playing style, his comments on Vancouver, the movement of his family here with him, and his current/recent coaching qualifications, the signs are all encouraging.

BianconeroSouthsider

Alessandro Nesta confirmed that he won't be going to New York. Philadelphia maybe? That was another destination he was linked to.

Hopefully my captain Del Piero doesn't go to LA.

valleywhitecaps

I know for the most part people here think he will succeed. My issue is that I have a hunch that those who have no doubt on him being able to succeed have a bias because he plays in England or comes from Scotland.

If a player from Croatia became a DP that only those who followed Croat players knew of. He played in one of the mid leagues in Europe. And I came on saying how great this guy is - I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot.

Maybe for some, but for me I really didn't like him until I heard he was signing for us. Why? Because he has time and again helped decimate the teams I have followed. He is the kind of player you hate to play against... which is why I love it that he is coming to us. A few months ago I slammed Kris Boyd (another Scottish player) as being a poor signing for Portland, and I stand by that assessment. My excitement about having robson join us has nothing to do with him being Scottish, and everything to do with him being the exact style of player and leader we need.

SAFC_Yank

bili said: Fair enough.

As a MLS player - I have no issue with him.

As a DP - my vote is still up for grabs.

Reasonable point. I suspect giving him DP money was the only way to get him here. If he'll make us better, I'm fine with that. He doesn't have to be our BEST player to do that, he can be in the top four or five. Given his track record, that seems likely, or at least likely enough to be worth the risk.

When I read something only positive about players - I tend to play devil's advocate.

I hope he's all that we're expecting. Could be a great second half.

Understood there, always a bit suspicious when everybody hops on a bandwagon.

rodderzzz

Kris Boyds attitude to the game and Barry Robson's attitude to the game are worlds apart. IF Boyd had the right attitude he'd rip this league to shreds

bili

Couple of points:

Rodderzzz - Maybe I just overrate the MLS and think it's on par with Championship level. If you think it's a notch below, then I'll have to take your word for it.

Seathanich - I don't follow the promotion or relegation closely. I assumed (incorrectly based on a quick look at Norwich) that when a club is promoted, they would supplement their Chamionship squad with a bunch of "Premier League" quality players. So last year's Norwich squad would look very different compared to this year's Norwich squad. Looks like they had very little turnover from the prior year.

I guess I'll just have to trust you guys that this guy can play.

I still have my doubts about whether he can play to DP level. The Caps do need a field general - that is for sure.

rodderzzz

Its not even close to the Championship in reality. maybe, maybe the top sides in MLS could just avoid relegation but the majority would get spanked every week. The standard of the championship is very underrated

Seathanaich

bili said: Seathanich - I don't follow the promotion or relegation closely. I assumed (incorrectly based on a quick look at Norwich) that when a club is promoted, they would supplement their Chamionship squad with a bunch of "Premier League" quality players. So last year's Norwich squad would look very different compared to this year's Norwich squad. Looks like they had very little turnover from the prior year.

Every team is different. Some promoted teams have heavy turnover. This year Queen's Park Rangers were the most highly touted of the three promoted sides, yet they had the most turnover, and were the only new club even involved in the relegation battle. I forgot to mention above that all three teams promoted in 2011 (QPR, Swansea, Norwich) stayed up this year, which is further evidence that the 20 teams in the bottom of England I / top of England II are pretty much comparable.

Though Canadians would have liked to have seen more playing time for Simeon Jackson, Norwich stuck with most of their players from the previous year. So did Swansea.

I still have my doubts about whether he can play to DP level. The Caps do need a field general - that is for sure.

It sounds like that's what he is, and it's the biggest need we have. Isn't a play-making central midfielder the most sought-after thing in football? Cheers.

bili

A quality play making central midfielder is integral - yes.

Let's hope he has quality.

rich16

Paul Stalteri is making a comeback. Don't see him as a fit for the 'Caps, but would you think TFC or Montreal would make a play for the former Canadian captain?

Link to TSN article: http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=396743

Canadianspur

rich16 said: Paul Stalteri is making a comeback. Don't see him as a fit for the 'Caps, but would you think TFC or Montreal would make a play for the former Canadian captain?

Link to TSN article: http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=396743

Does Diesel still have the legs to be anything more than a depth player now?

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-05-25 14:20:20

Stalteri was always a classy player for Canada. I remember his wife giving out his player cards to us at a Canada game in Edmonton in the early noughties. He's 34 . . . love to see him return to Canada.

bili said: A quality play making central midfielder is integral - yes.

Let's hope he has quality.

The "quality" part is understood when you say "play making central midfielder". I didn't say that we needed an "incompetent central midfielder" or an "unpredictable central midfielder" - I said that we needed a "play making central midfielder", ie one that can make plays.

BianconeroSouthsider

bili said: A quality play making central midfielder is integral - yes.

Let's hope he has quality.

He'll definitely be a step up over our other options besides Koffie and Chiumiento.

rodderzzz

He'll be more influential on the command of the midfield than chumiento could ever have

bili

That's not saying much :))

Eric_The_King

I'm not sure what DP level is but Robson has played Champions League & was Boro's player of the season, he'll be our best CM by a distance.

Don't expect anything fancy, he'll generally keep it simple, but he does have a great left foot that can deliver a quality long pass & crackers from distance. I can see him helping Hassli when it comes to long (accurate) balls for him to hold up, think he'll work well with Rennie & will be a good influence on the squad all round. I can also see him challenging Eric for goal of the season, maybe...

cdusdal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ennQJF5CsZ4

Another link for the earlier list. "Take a Bow Son"

valleywhitecaps

Eric_The_King said: I'm not sure what DP level is but Robson has played Champions League & was Boro's player of the season, he'll be our best CM by a distance.

... and scored against Barca in the process.

Lord_Bob

Gabe Gala scored against Real Madrid.

SRFC

bili said:

piltdownman said:

bili said: Does he want to go to Turkey though?

He wants to stay at Old Trafford. But sounds like they have other plans.

Sure - but does he want to go to Turkey? Generally speaking the player has a lot of say in where his new employment will be. A Turkish club can chase him AND be the highest bidder but that doesn't mean he'll go.

I say YP picks up the phone and calls his buddy to get him here ASAP.

Why wouldnt he go there though?? Turkey has some very good teams and there is already plenty of very good players at Galatasaray so hes lucky if they are interested in him. Park is a very average and limited player.

Barry Robson is good, nothing special but he very well should be a top quality MLS player and 1 of the best midfielders in MLS too. Would walk into any MLS teams starting lineup and its obvious midfield is a position that needs to be stronger for Whitecaps. Crap like Thorrington still getting a game, dreadful player!

SRFC

A bit off topic but with people talking about Scotland does anyone know if any channels here have the USA v Scotland friendly on today at 5pm??

Brenton

valleywhitecaps said:

Eric_The_King said: I'm not sure what DP level is but Robson has played Champions League & was Boro's player of the season, he'll be our best CM by a distance.

... and scored against Barca in the process.

Lord_Bob said: Gabe Gala scored against Real Madrid.

Chiumiento assisted a Del Piero goal for Juventus.

limmeister

How is Park an average and limited player? he's better than what we've got currently in midfield. I'd rather have a Park-Robson midfield tandem, than a Koffie-Davidson combo. Although, Koffie is getting better, and Davidson is solid - but if given the option, certainly the comb of Park and Robson is an upgrade over what we've got right now.

With that being said. I'd be happy with just getting Robson here come July. Park...is a dream. He won't come to MLS until he's close to retiring. much like every other european footballer.

limmeister

I think Chiumiento deserves to start tonight against Portland, btw.

He's shown he's deserved a spot over Thorrington.

SRFC

limmeister said: How is Park an average and limited player? he's better than what we've got currently in midfield. I'd rather have a Park-Robson midfield tandem, than a Koffie-Davidson combo. Although, Koffie is getting better, and Davidson is solid - but if given the option, certainly the comb of Park and Robson is an upgrade over what we've got right now.

With that being said. I'd be happy with just getting Robson here come July. Park...is a dream. He won't come to MLS until he's close to retiring. much like every other european footballer.

I think you misunderstood me, I was talking about Park in terms of the top leagues. He is an average EPL player and I'd imagine would be average in the other top leagues. My point was he'd be lucky to be at a very talented Galatasaray team. He would be a great signing for the Whitecaps obviously

ShahryarAhkami · Post edited by ShahryarAhkami at 2012-05-26 23:32:42

Brenton said:

valleywhitecaps said:

Eric_The_King said: I'm not sure what DP level is but Robson has played Champions League & was Boro's player of the season, he'll be our best CM by a distance.

... and scored against Barca in the process.

Lord_Bob said: Gabe Gala scored against Real Madrid.

Chiumiento assisted a Del Piero goal for Juventus.

Thats not correct at all. Chiumiento played two games for Juv, he was never on the field at the same time as Del Piero. In one of the games he was subbed in for Del Piero, so they were never even on the field at the same time. The source for this information is Chiumiento himself when he was on Team 1410 about a week ago on Whitecaps FC Daily, the Friday before the Seattle game.

SAFC_Yank

rodderzzz said: Its not even close to the Championship in reality. maybe, maybe the top sides in MLS could just avoid relegation but the majority would get spanked every week. The standard of the championship is very underrated

I'd echo that. Salary levels in the Championship reflect it - they're more than double than of MLS. I think there's maybe been two teams in MLS history that could have been really solid in the Championship. One was last year's LA team, because Donovan and Keane would have been a handful, Beckham and Juninho would contribute, and Gonzales would have provided the defense enough strength to get by. The other would be the DC United teams in the middle of the last decade - they had moments where they were miles ahead of the rest of MLS.

StateSide_Cap

SAFC_Yank said:

rodderzzz said: Its not even close to the Championship in reality. maybe, maybe the top sides in MLS could just avoid relegation but the majority would get spanked every week. The standard of the championship is very underrated

I'd echo that. Salary levels in the Championship reflect it - they're more than double than of MLS. I think there's maybe been two teams in MLS history that could have been really solid in the Championship. One was last year's LA team, because Donovan and Keane would have been a handful, Beckham and Juninho would contribute, and Gonzales would have provided the defense enough strength to get by. The other would be the DC United teams in the middle of the last decade - they had moments where they were miles ahead of the rest of MLS.

Agreed, Championship far above MLS. I would say though that the top teams in MLS would fight for play-off spots in League One. Watching Huddersfield and Sheffield United, I would say they are a step above MLS, but not a step that some teams wouldn't make.

Brenton

ShahryarAhkami said:

Brenton said:

valleywhitecaps said:

Eric_The_King said: I'm not sure what DP level is but Robson has played Champions League & was Boro's player of the season, he'll be our best CM by a distance.

... and scored against Barca in the process.

Lord_Bob said: Gabe Gala scored against Real Madrid.

Chiumiento assisted a Del Piero goal for Juventus.

Thats not correct at all. Chiumiento played two games for Juv, he was never on the field at the same time as Del Piero. In one of the games he was subbed in for Del Piero, so they were never even on the field at the same time. The source for this information is Chiumiento himself when he was on Team 1410 about a week ago on Whitecaps FC Daily, the Friday before the Seattle game.

Interesting. That was reported when he first signed with us.

Brenton

Talking with a couple of TA guys today, they are a little confused by the rapturous welcome we're already giving Robson. Here's hoping his arrival hasn't been overblown, and that he lives up to these high expectations.

Ghostdog

Middlesborough fans opinions > TA opinions.

Brenton

Robson's mom's opinion > TA mom's opinions.

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-05-28 12:17:06

Brenton said: Talking with a couple of TA guys today, they are a little confused by the rapturous welcome we're already giving Robson. Here's hoping his arrival hasn't been overblown, and that he lives up to these high expectations.

I hope they washed the cream off their own pants from the Boyd singing before they made that comment. Maybe they're reflecting on the overreaction in their fanbase to that player? The two situations are a tad different:

Robson - signed by Vancouver coming off MVP seasons, fans gutted by his departure. Boyd - plucked from obscurity in Turkey 2 seasons removed from any actual glory, and having been loaned from his previous employer.

Brenton · Post edited by Brenton at 2012-05-28 12:36:24

I think both were properly skeptical of the Boyd signing. Maybe they're just moderate, rational supporters, people that one can have an intelligent conversation with without relying on overblown rhetoric. Fucking hell.

Bad_Gones

Still pissed that Boyd scored against us.

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-05-28 12:52:20

Brenton said: I think both were properly skeptical of the Boyd signing. Maybe they're just moderate, rational supporters, people that one can have an intelligent conversation with without relying on overblown rhetoric. Fucking hell.

There's no rhetoric in my post, and the "maybe they're reacting to" in my post is interrogative and speculative, not declarative. The people you talked to might not have been excited about the Boyd signing, but the euphoria over it from Portland fans pre-season was probably higher than I read for any other playing joining MLS this season.

Brenton

So you actually hope they "washed the cream off their own pants"?

Seathanaich

LOL! Of course I do. It would be a tad embarassing and a bit gross if they left it on there.

Neeskens1974

seathanaich said: LOL! Of course I do. It would be a tad embarassing and a bit gross if they left it on there.

hehehe

Chris

Brenton there was a trifecta post entitled "we are going to WIN THE LEAGUE" (emphasis THEIRS) when that signing went down.

Brenton

And some people on here predict we're going to win every game in the I Know the Score thread.

Fynnsky

Brenton said: And some people on here predict we're going to win every game in the I Know the Score thread.

Guilty

brrrrrradley

Brenton said: And some people on here predict we're going to win every game in the I Know the Score thread.

We ARE going to win every game starting............. Now. :P

VanCityVilla

Bernardo Corradi heading back to Italy in a few weeks.

Canadian Soccer News Link

Rico

VanCityVilla said: Bernardo Corradi heading back to Italy in a few weeks.

Canadian Soccer News Link

In relation to this, it is rumored again today in the Italian press that Del Piero is in contract talks with the Impact.

Fynnsky

Rico said:

VanCityVilla said: Bernardo Corradi heading back to Italy in a few weeks.

Canadian Soccer News Link

In relation to this, it is rumored again today in the Italian press that Del Piero is in contract talks with the Impact.

Rennie seemed to hint at it as well on 1040 this morning.

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