Cannon or Nolly

tim13

Like I've said previously both keepers are good (not great) and each has their strengths and weaknesses. Cannon is a bit better shot stopper and Nolly is way better playing the ball with his feet. Cannon is 200k and Nolly is 80k. Cannon will be gone. Just too much money for what he brings at this stage of his career.

Both are good but both have been victims of nights where the defense was vacant.

MC5

I agree with rodderzzz, it is blatantly obvious that many people on this forum have never played the game in their life, i also agree that Cannon is the better keeper but as predicted by many on here if he is not going to be here next season give Nolly as many games as possible. If Cannon is going to stay play him and get some money's worth out of him. Too keep changing keeper's every couple of games is not going to do the team or individual players any good at all.
I was also wondering if anybody thinks that it was just coincidence that Cannon was dropped after his great gesture towards the fans? I know it was a week after a 4-0 defeat but under TS Nolly had not had a look in and Cannon could not be faulted too much for the goals agaisnt LA. I think TS must know that he is not very well liked by the southsiders and then his keeper goes to the pub and spends a grand buying them beer, dont think this would have gone down very well with him.

Lord_Bob

They say Cannon has a nagging ankle injury. Let's not get too conspiracy theory-y here.

barca99

I wonder if Soehn and Rennie are communicating as to where Rennie wants the team to go? If Rennie is going to play Nolly next season, I would let him finish the season as #1, to give as much time as possible to gel with the back line.

This season is basically a throw away at this point (other than the Cascadia Cup), so might as well start to build for 2012.

barca99

I also think Nolly looked nervous, something I have never noticed before. Case in point after one of his early drop kicks that sailed all the way out for a DC goal kick he looked at the bench and looked like the bench was telling him to slow down the play. After that he was second guessing his clearances all night.

Brenton

WhiteLightning said:

Agreed! Case closed. CANNON is our #1 goalkeeper!

Those gaffs by Nolly are simply unacceptable at this level. He wasn't even vocal with his back line, and had zero organization. Cannon is most always organized, and gels much better with Jay Demerit and the back line.

So Man Utd should sell De Gea, then? Bench him? Right, good policy.

Lefty

^No they need to trade Hassli to TFC first for missing the pen. kick. Haven't you played soccer Brenton?
:-))

Brenton

Nothing like a little fan overreaction to get you excited about your team.

Gamblor

I think we can all agree that Nolly is the favourable cap hit moving forward, and in my opinion neither one of them has really done a whole heck of a lot to cement their place as the first option in goal. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see another option brought in when Rennie takes the reigns.

Ghostdog

Gamblor said:
I think we can all agree that Nolly is the favourable cap hit moving forward, and in my opinion neither one of them has really done a whole heck of a lot to cement their place as the first option in goal. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see another option brought in when Rennie takes the reigns.

I would be shocked and very disappointed if they didn't bring in another keeper.

Brenton

Letting Thomas go looks shortsighted now. He's signed with Huddersfield Town in League One, though he's behind two other keepers, I think.

The_Real_Deal

Something must have happened with Cannon & Soehn at half time during the Portland game, because Cannon was back out on the pitch with the goalkeeping coach during the half time "team talk"

I'm listening to the Full Time show and Mike & Tyler are speculating starts at 40 mins http://www.teamradio.ca/podcast/soccer_show/Full_Time_Vancouvers_Soccer_Show_August_21_2011_Powered%20by%20Kingsway%20Honda~.mp3

OldFan

This thread has not been around for a bit..

But, I think Joe has had an excellent season. I would be pleased to see him back for one more year. He certainly was not the reason the team was losing so much.

I was pissed when Nolly got booted after Teitur was sacked; and didn't think he deserved it. But, Joe has had a solid year and I think he should be ahead of Nolly going into next year.

Jay_Duke

He's been the better keeper..

... but you can get a mighty fine midfielder for the 200k a year salary he's on.

The_Real_Deal

Cannon is on 8x the salary Nolly is.

Is Cannon 8x better than Nolly?

bobloblaw17

Tractor_Boy said:
Cannon is on 8x the salary Nolly is.

Is Cannon 8x better than Nolly?

He bought 8x the beer than Nolly

:-D

TunnelBandit

Although the salary situation makes things a little muddy my gut feeling is that we should keep Joe for one more season, as I do feel he is superior to Jay. And I think having a good goalkeeper is a very big part of a successful team, with the confidence it gives the rest of the players.

Lord_Bob

If Cannon wants to re-sign at $55,000 or so and see out his career in Vancouver, that's fine by me. But the contract he currently has is just unsustainable for "fair but unspectacular goalkeeping".

Brenton

What about for fair and spectacular at times goalkeeping? His shot-stopping can be excellent.

Canadianspur

Joe has been good but not great. I agree that at his current salary he should not be back. Cut his wage package in half and I' be happy to have him around for another year.

Lord_Bob

Brenton said:
What about for fair and spectacular at times goalkeeping? His shot-stopping can be excellent.

Not to be harsh but there are lots of goalkeepers who can make the big save once in a while. I recall a certain "J. Nolly" who played in Vancouver a few years ago that was good at it.

Brenton

$55,000 just seems too low for Cannon. I think he's better than Nolly, and deserves more. I'm a big fan of Nolly, and I think he can be a starter in this league, though that may be saying more about the league than Nolly.

The_Real_Deal

I know both have had stinkers, Nolly in DC and Cannon in Toronto

FootyMonster

DavidCross said:

Ghostdog said:

DavidCross said:
... and this case is closed.

Really? How many did Cannon let in vs LA?

I'd say our keepers are pretty evenly matched and neither has stood out.

Having said that my hunch is Cannon gets a run of games after tonight.

Did Cannon get megged on any of the LA goals?

No but he got chipped, far worse.

BianconeroSouthsider

My gut says keep Cannon for another season. Unfortunately, if there's going to be a change in his contract it'll most likely be an increase.

PBandG

I know we are all judging what we see on the field. Would really like to know the difference in the change room. I have not been around long enough to know Nolly that well but he seems pretty quiet in comparison to Cannon. Wonder what Rennie would prefer to have.

OldFan

PBandG said:
I know we are all judging what we see on the field. Would really like to know the difference in the change room. I have not been around long enough to know Nolly that well but he seems pretty quiet in comparison to Cannon. Wonder what Rennie would prefer to have.

Cannon seems like a real leader who is good for team chemistry. Nolly is a very quality guy, but more on the quiet side and not someone who can grab the team and lift them up.

I would be happy to have them both back; get Cannon on 120,000 or something and Jay around 70, and I think that is good for two keepers of their quality.

Gosh, I always hated Hockey salary cap where every player decision is based on guys salaries. Now every player discussion has to do with the guys salary!

SoccerDotTel

With the way that Joe has endeared himself (especially in recent matches) he'll make it difficult for the Caps to get rid of him. Or not....there's no real loyalty in the MLS (from clubs -> players). Not a big fan of the transfer system, to be honest.

GoF

Cannon is way better for the dressing room and I love how he's challenged his team-mates passion and commitment to the team.

He's a class act and I'd love him to see his career out here if we can negotiate a good wage deal.

Grandstander

OldFan said:

PBandG said:
I know we are all judging what we see on the field. Would really like to know the difference in the change room. I have not been around long enough to know Nolly that well but he seems pretty quiet in comparison to Cannon. Wonder what Rennie would prefer to have.

Cannon seems like a real leader who is good for team chemistry. Nolly is a very quality guy, but more on the quiet side and not someone who can grab the team and lift them up.

I would be happy to have them both back; get Cannon on 120,000 or something and Jay around 70, and I think that is good for two keepers of their quality.

Gosh, I always hated Hockey salary cap where every player decision is based on guys salaries. Now every player discussion has to do with the guys salary!

Salary Caps are necessary to keep things in check. Without it we just run into problems like the old NASL. If UEFA allowed salary Caps what would the parity be like there?

PBandG

How close are we to the salary cap right now? Asked this in a couple other threads but no answer.

cixceven

PBandG said:
How close are we to the salary cap right now? Asked this in a couple other threads but no answer.

Since so few official numbers ever come out, it's really impossible to say with any kind of certainty.

Brenton

Despite publishing salary numbers twice a year. Allocation money plays a big role in the salary cap.

mayday

GoF said:
Cannon is way better for the dressing room and I love how he's challenged his team-mates passion and commitment to the team.
He's a class act and I'd love him to see his career out here if we can negotiate a good wage deal.

+1

Canadianspur · Post edited by Canadianspur at 2011-10-14 09:11:18

Brenton said:
Despite publishing salary numbers twice a year. Allocation money plays a big role in the salary cap.

And only the first 20 players count against the Cap so the posted numbers dont tell you which ones are in the Cap calculation and which ones aren't. We know Generation Adidas don't count and the guys on $32K and $42K are likely in roster spots 21+ so they are not counted against the cap. My guess is we are fairly close to the cap limit.

OldFan · Post edited by OldFan at 2011-10-14 09:15:09

Canadianspur said:

Brenton said:
Despite publishing salary numbers twice a year. Allocation money plays a big role in the salary cap.

And only the first 20 players count against the Cap so the posted numbers dont tell you which ones are in the Cap calculation and which ones aren't. We know Generation Adidas don't count and the guys on $32K and $42K are likely in roster spots 21+ so they are not counted against the cap. My guess is we are fairly close to the cap limit.

MLS keeps adding layers to the salary cap and player rules.

They really need to overhaul it and simplify it; don't you think? It would be beneficial for the league if the supporters can figure this out without needing a research staff to find all the rules.

Canadianspur

+1 Completely agree. Part of the fun of being a fan is playing armchair GM and the convoluted rules of MLS make that near impossible.

Boxing_Day_Massacre

But decoding these rules are TS's job. Surely you're not suggestting we don't need him ;-)

Stork

I don't think we need to change the goalkeeping next year. Both guys are great and back each other well and compete for the starting posistion. I expect Nolly will be one of the 11 save at next expansion draft, cause Montreal already has a strong goaltender, but they need a stronger back-up and Cannon's salary is to high for them to pick.

BianconeroSouthsider

No one seems to want Sylvestre to have a chance, do they? I know he's eighteen years old or something like that, but he has the size (he's an absolute monster, even more so than Bill Hamid), and goalkeepers hit their peak later than most, it wouldn't hurt him to start a game here and there.

OldFan

BianconeroSouthsider said:
No one seems to want Sylvestre to have a chance, do they? I know he's eighteen years old or something like that, but he has the size (he's an absolute monster, even more so than Bill Hamid), and goalkeepers hit their peak later than most, it wouldn't hurt him to start a game here and there.

He is 18. That is really too young for a keeper to be expected to play on the first team. Unless he is some sort of prodigy.

BianconeroSouthsider

Still, a game here and there would help him get an idea of what it's like. I know he's made the eighteen once this season, maybe we can give him one start. If we don't give him a chance, it'd be best we develop him properly. Goalkeepers are crucial, so the coaches had better be careful.

Brenton

It's too bad our cup games aren't actually small, they're massively important, or else I'd suggest Sylvestre get a start in one of them.

BianconeroSouthsider

Maybe if we're way ahead after the first leg, we give him a start in the second leg?

Seathanaich

Once again, the need for a better Reserve schedule is apparent.

4 x games vs SJ, LA, and Goat Farm Team (rather than just 2) = 12 games.
8 x games vs Sea and Port (rather than just 2) = 16 games.
1 exhibition game vs FC Edmonton and Victoria Highlanders = 2 games.

That would be 30 games instead of the paltry 10 they played this year, and that would work out to one per week from April to Sept: enough time to get almost every player in the squad a start or a sub appearance in an MLS or a reserve match every week.

slamo

^^Throw in some VMSL games just for fun.

Chris

Canadianspur said:
+1 Completely agree. Part of the fun of being a fan is playing armchair GM and the convoluted rules of MLS make that near impossible.

I honestly don't care how complicated the rules are. The problem for me is they don't publish the numbers. I'd love to see a tool like capgeek.com for MLS, but it's impossible since everything is obfuscated.

Seathanaich

Joe Cannon has said several times this season that there is a lack of professionalism on the team.

I would be interested to know what people think he is referrring to, specifically.

Is he referring to coaches and coaching?

Is he referring to a small group of players? If so, which ones?

Is he referring to a general malaise?

Is he calling out those wearing the armbands, for not showing enough vocal leadership?

Is he commenting on those who seem to "float" a bit on the field?

Lastly - and I'd like to hear responses about this in particular - is calling out the team for lack of professionalism something that likely to be damaging his relationship with his teammates and coaches?

piltdownman

Not to stir things up, but on Whitecaps daily today I believe the words were "Unprofessional at the top of the organization". Should be able to strike a few options off your list based on that.

Dutchman

piltdownman said:
Not to stir things up, but on Whitecaps daily today I believe the words were "Unprofessional at the top of the organization". Should be able to strike a few options off your list based on that.

I heard that to. Who knows what really goes on behind closed doors and in the room, but Cannon throwing that out there, with the tone that he used was really, really poor form.

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