Atiba Harris

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-08-16 12:28:46

VWFC got rid of some players recently - Michael Boxall, Floyd Franks - who Martin Rennie clearly wasn't going to play. Somehow Atiba Harris survived those cuts, and the only reason why must be that Rennie felt he couldn't yet cut a guy who was injured. He's a human, not a robot, after all.

But at $150K+, Harris makes more than Jordan Harvey and Gershon Koffie, both of whom were known and proven players. He makes almost as much as Joe Cannon. He is, without doubt, the worst value for money on the team, and he needs to be released this off season.

What did he do before being substituted in the game vs Dallas? Let's take a look . . .

He missed an open goal from inside the 6 yard box early in the game. Granted, Miller had been whistled for a phantom foul on the Amazing Collapsible Hartmann, but still - put the ball in the net. Other players have bounced a few ball into the net off him like a pylon, but if he can't even do that, then his uses drop significantly.

He didn't show blazing speed, trickery, or pressurising defensive skills. He wasn't an aerial threat, despite being tall. None of this is anything new, of course.

He gives the ball away constantly when going forward, with poor passes that don't go to team mates, or go to them with such inaccuracy that possession is turned over.

He gets caught standing still and seems at a loss as to what to do next, and then loses the ball from tacklers while he stands there, contemplating the universe, or the pretty girl in row three.

He is constantly surprised when the ball arrives, as evidenced by a ball in the opposition box in the second half. It crossed about two metres in front of him, and didn't he didn't pounce on it, or even move. He never knows ahead of time what to do with the ball should it come to him. He never anticipates anything.

He tries to draw fouls by leaning on people and then falling in slow motion to the ground while holding onto them. Others around the world do this too of course; but he's particularly unconvincing at it. He'd accomplish more by staying up and trying to stab his feet at the round leather thing.

His first touch is usually clumsily several metres away from him. That's how he "won" the free kick which Camilo almost scored on. His touch put the ball metres away from him, and he barely reached it a second time before the defender did, and hit him instead. Even when something good happens by accident, it's the result of his lack of touch.

It was Harris' poor ball control which put the ball into touch for the Dallas throw which lead to their first goal. We have been burned several times this year on throw-ins, and I'm not Harris for the goal, but I will blame him for the throw-in, which he conceded under zero pressure because of his (say it together) poor touch and complete lack of anticipation.

Rewatch it all on your PVR (if you didn't immediately delete it), and feel free to debate any of the above points (after you've down raved me for being "mean"). Rust? Unfair sample size of only one game? Those might be excuses, except that his performance was no different than the others he's made over the past few years, when his weaknesses have been obscured by a few crosses and shots bouncing off him into the net. No, this was just another typical Atiba Harris display.

You can't beat any MLS opponent when you are playing 10 vs 11, and with Harris on the field, that's what happened out there. There is no way that Harris should get on the field ahead of Nanchoff (or Teibert when available) based on the evidence of game film.

Jay_Duke

While I agree, and have posted on 86Forever about his (and Thors) contracts being too high for their worth, the only thing I'll point out is he still has a fairly good number of goals and assists per 90 with the Caps.

Bouncing off him or not...

I'm not sure what it's worth, because he's usually somewhere between dreadful and average, but if the man scores... It's more than what we've got out of some of our players.

Either way, over payed and I won't sob if e gets cut.

Chris

I think possibly it had to do with having few bodies Rennie is comfortable playing on the wing. I don't rate him, but he's played most of his career out wide.

OllieMcClellan

He was terrible yesterday, without question, but it's a bit harsh considering he's coming off injury and has barely played all season.

No problem if he's gone after the year, though.

RaybanOriginal

I read somewhere that Rennie said he receives more calls about trading for Atiba then anyone else. My first thought was why isn't he gone then?

Goals per 90 in a Caps uniform is irrelevant. Small sample size. Anyone can get hot for a couple of games - Remember Jeff Cowen?

fourfourtwo

He has looked serviceable as a hold up forward.... But I'm not sure long term.

cixceven

RaybanOriginal said: Anyone can get hot for a couple of games - Remember Jeff Cowen?

Do not sully the legend of Cowen the Brabarian with such comparison!

Seathanaich

Oh, I forget to point out in my original points that it was Harris' poor ball control which put the ball into touch for the Dallas throw which lead to their first goal. We have been burned several times this year on throw-ins, and I'm not giving Harris all the blame on this, but it should be added to the report card above.

DannyBoy

Seathanaich said: Oh, I forget to point out in my original points that it was Harris' poor ball control which put the ball into touch for the Dallas throw which lead to their first goal. We have been burned several times this year on throw-ins, and I'm not giving Harris all the blame on this, but it should be added to the report card above.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that his poor ball control led to the goal considering the poor ball from Thorrington and the missed marks after the throw by JMD and Bonjour.

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-08-16 12:26:54

Oh I know, I'm not saying it caused the goal by itself, or that he was primarily repsonsible, because others blew it too, more than he did on that particular play. Just that it lead to that throw. He was under no pressure, yet managed to bungle the ball over the line. And from the throw . . .

vancouversoccerman

Harris was poor and out of place yesterday, but throwing him under the bus is ridiculous. Harris is a solid, proven MLS squad player who has a tremendous work rate. The fact that he still has speed after coming back from two horrible injuries is enough to keep working with him.

What's lacking right now are Reserve matches to keep our bench match-ready. Seven players in last night's match haven't played significant minutes, and it showed. This will only get worse when everyone comes back from their national teams, and our backups like Harris, Nanchoff & Watson go back to training & twiddling their thumbs on the bench.

Seathanaich

Hey VSM. I'm not throwing him under the bus (ie blaming him solely for a loss which others participated in). I'm using a fresh example of his play to illustrate, with examples, the attributes he has exhibited on the few occassions over the past two years when he has played, and to illustrate why he is not only overpaid, but why he should not be on the field ahead of people like Nanchoff, or Teibert when available, let alone Salgado or Richards.

The team played poorly yesterday. They didn't have much imagination going forward, and they didn't stay focussed defensively to prevent the goal by Castillo. From there, things went down hill. There was massive indiscipline at the end by numerous people. There were poor performances and 'leadership' from Robson. Miller was invisible. But the thread is about Atiba Harris, and I couldn't find an existing one in which to comment at length upon him. Agreed about reserve matches, but he is still behind Nanchoff, Teibert in that regard, and should be behind Clarke in terms of developing him. We don't yet know what Clarke can be, but we do know what Harris is and won't (at this point in his career) progress from. He's at most a D2 player, and that's where he needs to be next year.

vancouversoccerman

I wasn't pointing fingers individually on the bus comment...that one was a group effort! :-)

Personally, I rate Harris ahead of Nanchoff simply on the basis that his work rate and goal production far outpaces his. But it's obvious that the arrival of Richards knocks him out of serious starting contention, and behind Salgado as well if he returns to form after his injury. Don't know where Teibert fits in to the plans, as he can't get a sniff anywhere.

We need good squad players, and Harris is one of them. But the biggest problem is minutes. If we drop him, Harris will still be in the league next season...perhaps fighting for a starting role on a lesser team. So, do we keep him, and hope he shows more of what he's capable of? Or do we deal him when his stock is low for yet another player who won't get to play?

Brenton

Seathanaich said: VWFC got rid of some players recently - Michael Boxall, Floyd Franks - who Martin Rennie clearly wasn't going to play. Somehow Atiba Harris survived those cuts, and the only reason why must be that Rennie felt he couldn't yet cut a guy who was injured. He's a human, not a robot, after all.

MLS rules state you can't cut players while they're injured.

Elisant

Brenton said:

Seathanaich said: VWFC got rid of some players recently - Michael Boxall, Floyd Franks - who Martin Rennie clearly wasn't going to play. Somehow Atiba Harris survived those cuts, and the only reason why must be that Rennie felt he couldn't yet cut a guy who was injured. He's a human, not a robot, after all.

MLS rules state you can't cut players while they're injured.

Is that kind of like not being allowed to fire someone because they're pregnant?

Bad_Gones

Yeah. Exactly like that. ~X(

GoF

Atiba can easily be trade bait but I think we need to ship him off now otherwise we're not going to get much in return for him.

vancouversoccerman

GoF said: Atiba can easily be trade bait but I think we need to ship him off now otherwise we're not going to get much in return for him.

I think the opposite...I don't think we can get much for him now, but his value will rise if he can show the league he's healthy and competitive again. And if he gets back to that state, we may want to keep him on.

GoF

Guess it depends on is he's on a one or two year contract

mayday

Wasn't Harris used to be playing up top in a 4-4-2, instead out wide in our 4-3-3/4-1-4-1?

Seathanaich

Brenton said: MLS rules state you can't cut players while they're injured.

So . . . you're saying he would have waived him if he could have? ;)

I missed your efforts on TEAM Radio, I hope to listen to it later on podcast. It sounds like you got ambushed, from other reactions. Good on you for walking into the snake pit.

GoF said: Atiba can easily be trade bait but I think we need to ship him off now otherwise we're not going to get much in return for him.

Agreed. The more he plays, the less valuable he becomes. For now, he still has a reputation based on what he did a few years ago, so he should be kept out of the first eleven and then dealt when the season ends. Hopefully for more than a bag of balls and some ankle tape.

SAFC_Yank

mayday said: Wasn't Harris used to be playing up top in a 4-4-2, instead out wide in our 4-3-3/4-1-4-1?

No, while he's played as a true forward a fair bit the last couple years, the majority of his career has been spent playing wide.

Brenton

Mostly LW in a 4-4-2 at Dallas.

mayday

SAFC_Yank said:

mayday said: Wasn't Harris used to be playing up top in a 4-4-2, instead out wide in our 4-3-3/4-1-4-1?

No, while he's played as a true forward a fair bit the last couple years, the majority of his career has been spent playing wide.

...well I guess he is fresh out of excuses

BianconeroSouthsider

Seathanaich, I've been uttering this for over a year and I'm glad that at least one person agrees with me. The money he's making and what he offers isn't good enough, he shouldn't be in this team and I'm glad that Peter Schaad, someone who keeps rating him for no reason has finally seen the light. It's a sign, he needs to go. I'm sorry, Atiba, I'm a reasonable guy, but you're not good enough and you're injury prone.

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-08-16 20:08:40

Paul, I think the problem was that when the Whitecaps were terrible last year, people looked at the two great games vs Tor and KC at the start of the season, and the crap in mid-season, and said "what's different now?" What they came up with (and some people did say this) was "Atiba Harris was in then, and is out now". He scored a few goals in those games (ie balls bounced in off him), and thus he started to acquire an aura with some fans that he didn't really deserve. From there, it was "back-up quarterback" syndrome: the guy you don't see playing can't be any worse than the bums on the field, so let's call for him (or in this case, wish he was back from injury).

Personally, I didn't buy into it. I see why others did, but hopefully the illusion is now shattered.

BianconeroSouthsider

And honestly, the goals weren't impressive. It was all work from Chiumiento on the KC goal and the one against TFC was a loose ball in the box which he hammered from point blank range past Frei.

Brenton

Now go over the three assists he had.

vancouversoccerman · Post edited by vancouversoccerman at 2012-08-16 22:23:18

Brenton said: Now go over the three assists he had.

Exactly. He is the type of player who'll come back to bite us if we give up in him. Work rate and speed makes up for talent in most of MLS. We shouldn't give it away lightly.

DannyBoy

vancouversoccerman said:

Work rate and speed

That's exactly what he was missing yesterday. He had plenty of it in his limited action last year. He had great hustle and always seemed to drag a couple defenders with him. He seemed real timid and scared last night and if that keeps up get rid of him. I hope the hustle comes back.

RaybanOriginal

vancouversoccerman is Atiba Harris.

Brenton

DannyBoy said:

vancouversoccerman said:

Work rate and speed

That's exactly what he was missing yesterday. He had plenty of it in his limited action last year. He had great hustle and always seemed to drag a couple defenders with him. He seemed real timid and scared last night and if that keeps up get rid of him. I hope the hustle comes back.

First game back after injuries, that's to be expected. I too hope he finds whatever top form he's had, though I'm not convinced that his top form is good enough for us.

Lord_Bob

If you've seen Atiba Harris good once in his career, you've seen him good one more time than I have.

BianconeroSouthsider

Brenton, yes he's been hurt, but that's a sign that we shouldn't keep him. He's making 6 figures to sit in the stands for most of the year, that reason alone means we should get rid of him.

Out of curiosity, why would you keep him?

Brenton

I wouldn't.

danimal

I think he's gone at the end of the season, but in the meantime....anytime he suits up, I want him to play well.

StateSide_Cap

Seems like people were down on Camilo a few weeks ago?

Give Harris a few games. He may find form if he can stay healthy.

BianconeroSouthsider

Doubtful. At least Camilo can bring spurts of brilliance and open up defenses even when he's not up to par according to some people's expectations.

saltybugR

BianconeroSouthsider said: Seathanaich, I've been uttering this for over a year and I'm glad that at least one person agrees with me. The money he's making and what he offers isn't good enough, he shouldn't be in this team and I'm glad that Peter Schaad, someone who keeps rating him for no reason has finally seen the light. It's a sign, he needs to go. I'm sorry, Atiba, I'm a reasonable guy, but you're not good enough and you're injury prone.

harris will be just 1 of 5-6 players that will be cut/traded in the off-season-- their chances of ever making the starting 11 or being on the bench are low-- rennie will have more upgrading to do simply put, harris is just not good enough for MLS anymore, regardless of his time off for injuries... and sorry to say, but 3 major operations on the same knee probably makes his playing days just about over, aka owen hargreaves-- some things never heal well enough to play professionally again and multiple knee injuries are one of them

SAFC_Yank

saltybugR said:

BianconeroSouthsider said: Seathanaich, I've been uttering this for over a year and I'm glad that at least one person agrees with me. The money he's making and what he offers isn't good enough, he shouldn't be in this team and I'm glad that Peter Schaad, someone who keeps rating him for no reason has finally seen the light. It's a sign, he needs to go. I'm sorry, Atiba, I'm a reasonable guy, but you're not good enough and you're injury prone.

harris will be just 1 of 5-6 players that will be cut/traded in the off-season-- their chances of ever making the starting 11 or being on the bench are low-- rennie will have more upgrading to do simply put, harris is just not good enough for MLS anymore, regardless of his time off for injuries... and sorry to say, but 3 major operations on the same knee probably makes his playing days just about over, aka owen hargreaves-- some things never heal well enough to play professionally again and multiple knee injuries are one of them

3 major ops? Huh. A major one last year, and the meniscus one this year, which isn't major. Was there another op last year?

He was awful the other night, and I do suspect he's gone at the end of the year, but I don't think it is the knees, and somebody in MLS will give him a job.

Javy81

SAFC_Yank said:

saltybugR said:

BianconeroSouthsider said: Seathanaich, I've been uttering this for over a year and I'm glad that at least one person agrees with me. The money he's making and what he offers isn't good enough, he shouldn't be in this team and I'm glad that Peter Schaad, someone who keeps rating him for no reason has finally seen the light. It's a sign, he needs to go. I'm sorry, Atiba, I'm a reasonable guy, but you're not good enough and you're injury prone.

harris will be just 1 of 5-6 players that will be cut/traded in the off-season-- their chances of ever making the starting 11 or being on the bench are low-- rennie will have more upgrading to do simply put, harris is just not good enough for MLS anymore, regardless of his time off for injuries... and sorry to say, but 3 major operations on the same knee probably makes his playing days just about over, aka owen hargreaves-- some things never heal well enough to play professionally again and multiple knee injuries are one of them

3 major ops? Huh. A major one last year, and the meniscus one this year, which isn't major. Was there another op last year?

He was awful the other night, and I do suspect he's gone at the end of the year, but I don't think it is the knees, and somebody in MLS will give him a job.

I believe he had 2 surgery's last year:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/07/26/vancouver_whitecaps_atiba_harris_returning/

BianconeroSouthsider

That alone isn't good news in my books. Even if he was a good player, we should get rid of him because he's clearly injury prone. I would make the same case with Thorrington with the money he's making, because we can get another midfielder along with our other 4 (Ulisses, Davidson, Koffie, Robson) and have good rotation.

With Harris' contract, we can get another proper right winger, because we have Nanchoff and Teibert, who, correct me if I'm wrong, are solely left wingers.

fourfourtwo

BianconeroSouthsider said: That alone isn't good news in my books. Even if he was a good player, we should get rid of him because he's clearly injury prone. I would make the same case with Thorrington with the money he's making, because we can get another midfielder along with our other 4 (Ulisses, Davidson, Koffie, Robson) and have good rotation.

With Harris' contract, we can get another proper right winger, because we have Nanchoff and Teibert, who, correct me if I'm wrong, are solely left wingers.

Nanchoff has seemed to play more on the right under Rennie.

Home Join Forum About Songs Store Blog Charity Travel Contact Us

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion