April 28, 2012 - Whitecaps @ Columbus Crew - MLS Round 8 (R)
  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,777

    The narrow mid really leaves guys stuck without support on the wings in the defensive and middle third. A lot of long speculative balls are just clearances essentially. It is more extreme on the left with Jordan and Jay when he covers as neither has the offensive skill to gain their own space. Without Alain the opposition is really able to close off the box - when the Crew let Jordan walk in to 20 yard range and shut down the options what should have been a good goal scoring opportunity turned into a counter. Matt's opportunity came with bounces while surrounded by three defenders and YP scored off a bad cross. Other than that - nothing. Without our diamond of defense (Cannon, Bonjour, DeMerit, Davidson) we would be getting our asses handed to us day in day out.
    The good news is the Chivas game and the Crew game would have been 4-0 defeats last season. This season it is 6 points. We're just going to have accept that we won't be scoring with this set up except on great individual efforts, set plays, and lucky breaks. My thought is we'll need to adjust with the goal scoring teams - luckily there are only a few of those in MLS and we've already played 3 - unfortunately only shut one of them down so far.

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • The_Real_DealThe_Real_Deal
    Posts: 3,782

    I know Hassli is going to "come good" very soon

    Just look at Fernando Torres today

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  • WhitecatsWhitecats
    Posts: 612

    Neeskens1974 said: Again far too many speculative hoofs when in possession. Not many available players when moving forward, pace coming to a complete standstill in (where else?) midfield.

    Not much passing on the deck - y'know, the basic stuff. I don't know why this isn't being hammered in.

    I recently counted the number of continous passes that Barca made against Chelsea their last game (when the latter team was at full strength) and I counted 17 passes before they lost procession. the Whitecaps struggle to even string together 3 passes.

    I can't understand how we keep winning, especially when our forwards (except) for Camillo aren't producing.

    If and when our offense finally clicks and Robinson joins us, and everyone is healthy, we will be truly a force to be reckoned with.

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  • LittleBirdLittleBird
    Posts: 1,064

    slamo said: The narrow mid really leaves guys stuck without support on the wings in the defensive and middle third. A lot of long speculative balls are just clearances essentially. It is more extreme on the left with Jordan and Jay when he covers as neither has the offensive skill to gain their own space. Without Alain the opposition is really able to close off the box - when the Crew let Jordan walk in to 20 yard range and shut down the options what should have been a good goal scoring opportunity turned into a counter. Matt's opportunity came with bounces while surrounded by three defenders and YP scored off a bad cross. Other than that - nothing. Without our diamond of defense (Cannon, Bonjour, DeMerit, Davidson) we would be getting our asses handed to us day in day out.

    Good analysis.

  • Bad_GonesBad_Gones
    Posts: 5,825

    Whitecats said:

    I recently counted the number of continous passes that Barca made against Chelsea their last game (when the latter team was at full strength) and I counted 17 passes before they lost procession. the Whitecaps struggle to even string together 3 passes.

    Yes, because if Barca can do it against Chelsea, it must be easy. I understand your point and am not saying our passing % is acceptable ... but your comparison isn't a fair one.

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  • GoFGoF
    Posts: 2,847

    I thought DeMerit was dreadful last night. His mistakes could have proved costly on several occasions and he was getting completely burned by a rookie for the first 56 minutes.

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  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,777

    If either Bonjour or DeMerit are dreadful we lose big. Over 60% possession and over 500 passes for the Crew. Eric was lazy allowing the back for to carve the mid and Harvey and Lee getting caught leaving Martin and Jay to cover the wings - the way they are playing is totally dependent on the 2 CB's and JMD. Columbus had one goal scoring chance from the middle of the pitch with angles. Which was Gavin when Jay over committed and allowed Gavin to his right foot. Gavin came clear from the middle and Jay had to leave Marshall. The only chance from the middle was essentially a 4v2 - hardly either of the CB fault. Early on the wing Jay was beat on the left wing after a 45 yard run - shouldve done better there other than that the 3 central defenders won almost every duel and had to clean up YP and Harvey's turnovers.

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • maydaymayday
    Posts: 362

    GoF said: I thought DeMerit was dreadful last night. His mistakes could have proved costly on several occasions and he was getting completely burned by a rookie for the first 56 minutes.

    First half Shoulder barged off a ball down the wing which left an open headed cross which most strikers would bury. Beat on a header from a corner kick which resulted in a shot off the crossbar. Got beat at the 18 where the shot just went wide. Better second half.

    Feel like we are riding our luck, at least the breaks are going our way this season.

    member # 466
  • ChrisChris
    Posts: 5,417

    mayday said:

    GoF said: I thought DeMerit was dreadful last night. His mistakes could have proved costly on several occasions and he was getting completely burned by a rookie for the first 56 minutes.

    First half Shoulder barged off a ball down the wing which left an open headed cross which most strikers would bury. Beat on a header from a corner kick which resulted in a shot off the crossbar. Got beat at the 18 where the shot just went wide. Better second half.

    Feel like we are riding our luck, at least the breaks are going our way this season.

    The problem of course being luck tends to even out over time.

    Southsiders' Director of Merchandise - Twitter: @Chris_Withers - Member #180 - 251/4/101
  • Jay_DukeJay_Duke
    Posts: 1,518

    Chris said:

    mayday said:

    GoF said: I thought DeMerit was dreadful last night. His mistakes could have proved costly on several occasions and he was getting completely burned by a rookie for the first 56 minutes.

    First half Shoulder barged off a ball down the wing which left an open headed cross which most strikers would bury. Beat on a header from a corner kick which resulted in a shot off the crossbar. Got beat at the 18 where the shot just went wide. Better second half.

    Feel like we are riding our luck, at least the breaks are going our way this season.

    The problem of course being luck tends to even out over time.

    Perhaps this is make up luck for some of the terrible breaks we had last season?

    I thought Harvey was absolutely dreadful. DeMerit was bad but at least he cleaned it up in the second half. Harvey was responsible for at least 5 chance-ending giveaways, as well as numerous other bad passes and terrible clearances. Can't wait for Rochat to come back.

    Honestly, we were not only lucky to get any points, we deserved to give BACK points we already have earned. What a terrible, horrible game to watch.

    I thought Watson and Omar were our brightest players. Koffie strong again in the middle.

  • jemaljemal
    Posts: 82

    Jay_Duke,did you really think Watson ,Omar and Koffie were our strongest players?Go back and look at the replay of the entire game and see who clogged up the vital area.Not to mention offensive passes.I would argue strongly for Davidson.Dont just take my words for it.Check the Province and also Normans post game interview for example.But hey,each to his or her own.Smile!

  • TWFTWF
    Posts: 182

    Neeskens1974 said: Again far too many speculative hoofs when in possession. Not many available players when moving forward, pace coming to a complete standstill in (where else?) midfield.

    Not much passing on the deck - y'know, the basic stuff. I don't know why this isn't being hammered in.

    This is it really. I'm thrilled that we are earning points but I have no idea what sort of system we are developing because nothing has developed over our 8 games. I'm not particularly being negative I just haven't seen any progress in regards to moving the ball up the field. Pass the ball on the ground..... anyhow, our defenders are a joy to watch.....except for.....If you were an opposing coach and you saw a left side that was Harvey-Watson-Salgado vs a right side of Lee-Koffie-Le Toux, where would you direct your attack......The ball was at Harveys feet alot and I don't think that benefits us. Can't wait to see Rochat back in our lineup.

  • ynwasouthsideynwasouthside
    Posts: 1,658

    There is no better player in the world today than JMD. Don't take Jemal's word for it (even though football mastermind, David Norman Sr. Esq happens to agree with him) and you atheists can STFU because god himself told me about his 11th commandment (lost because, apparently, Moses was more incompetent than Jordan Harvey): though shalt not win a single match without Jun Marques Davidson. He is the chosen one. MLS Cup. Cure for Cancer. World Peace. There's nothing he cannot do.

    twitter: @cnclifford
  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,777

    mayday said:

    GoF said: I thought DeMerit was dreadful last night. His mistakes could have proved costly on several occasions and he was getting completely burned by a rookie for the first 56 minutes.

    First half Shoulder barged off a ball down the wing which left an open headed cross which most strikers would bury. Beat on a header from a corner kick which resulted in a shot off the crossbar. Got beat at the 18 where the shot just went wide. Better second half.

    Feel like we are riding our luck, at least the breaks are going our way this season.

    Ah, just a difference of opinion then...if Jay was "beat" on the long corner that lead to the bicycle kick then I'm thinking we have different standards of being "beat". Geez.

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • BrentonBrenton
    Posts: 7,054

    I thought Watson was very industrious in breaking up some Columbus possession but he mostly ran around a ton and looked busy without getting a lot done. 60% passing accuracy, 50% in the final third, is pretty poor.

  • BrentonBrenton
    Posts: 7,054

    slamo said:

    mayday said:

    First half Shoulder barged off a ball down the wing which left an open headed cross which most strikers would bury. Beat on a header from a corner kick which resulted in a shot off the crossbar. Got beat at the 18 where the shot just went wide. Better second half.

    Feel like we are riding our luck, at least the breaks are going our way this season.

    Ah, just a difference of opinion then...if Jay was "beat" on the long corner that lead to the bicycle kick then I'm thinking we have different standards of being "beat". Geez.

    Well, DeMerit was marking Marshall, jumped for the corner and didn't get it, and Marshall put an easy ball back into the middle for the bicycle kick off the bar. I think my standard must be closer to mayday's. Do you think he did well on that?

  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,777

    Net side - pressured him. The guy is 3 inches taller. He couldn't have done more. There was no wide support so it was a good set play that was defended fine. It would have been a run away goal of the week. I'd ask what else could he have done?

    Post edited by slamo at 2012-04-29 19:23:42
    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • Bad_GonesBad_Gones
    Posts: 5,825

    slamo said: I'd ask what else could he have done?

    Exactly. All too often I read complaints/concerns about something our players should have done / didn't do, and often it completely ignores the fact there's another team on the pitch working against us.

    I'm not talking about poor giveaways and things our players do on their own. Sometimes the other team is just better. Did anyone blame Keller for Hassli's goal last year?

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  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,777

    Yes. Exactly. I think Rennie is building an approach that involves asking a lot of the two CB's and JMD to spot in the middle. This has proven to be unbeatable except when Jay had one bad game and then again when Martin had a bad game. If either has a "bad" game I'm pretty sure we've given up several goals. Gersh tends to leave his man - Gavin's long bouncing shot being a perfect example - he drifts out of the game for a second and his man is net side - either he fouls or... Matt likes to get forward and take people on - so like Gersh - loses possession too frequently. As much fun as YP is too watch and despite how good he is - with 7 goals in 8 games (2 off set pieces - 3 if you count the SJ throw-in) more often than not his offensives forays end in 4 players running at three defenders. Personally I'd say without Joe, Jay, Martin, and JMD we'd be at the bottom of the west.

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • Brenton said: I thought Watson was very industrious in breaking up some Columbus possession but he mostly ran around a ton and looked busy without getting a lot done. 60% passing accuracy, 50% in the final third, is pretty poor.

    Christ, his passing is really poor for a midfielder. He has good stamina and what not, but if you can't pass, that's not a good sign.

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  • ChrisChris
    Posts: 5,417

    Is it smart to build a strategy that relies so heavily on two players, though? What happens when they get injured or have to rotate out?

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  • jemaljemal
    Posts: 82

    ynwasouthside-did you get up on the wrong side of bed or something?JMD is not the savior and he makes mistakes but you really took what I said WAY out of context.If I gave you that impressionetc.then that is my bad.Just wanted to have an honest exchange of views.Thanks for letting me express my thoughts but I won`t continue as it may be taken the wrong way.I am glad that you brought it to my attention.Peace!

  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,777

    He'd have to change strategies :-P

    Honestly I expected to see a 3-4-3 after the SKC game. If Jay or Martin got hurt I'd expect to see YP and Alain staying back more and Dede in for JMD and more of a 4-4-2 with an active midfield - maybe that'd get Russell in and Nano. My opinion is its easier to build a defensive strategy so it makes sense Rennie would start there. Now it's a matter of piecing out what happens when the backs get into offensive positions. I'd like to see a lot more corners at very least coming from YP getting forward - nothing comes off any of his runs and it's because nothing is happening. LeToux seems to be a run onto plays type player, and Hassli wants the ball at the top of the box or back to net so.... (??). I'm not sure what the solution is for our scoring woes - so I'm pretty happy we have those four in the centre of the defending third. I'm looking forward to Camillo and Omar getting a run with LeToux up top but we'll see I guess. Seems a reverse of last years "who'll score?". Now it seems will anyone get 10? Will we score 30-35 goals as a team??

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • BrentonBrenton
    Posts: 7,054

    slamo said: Net side - pressured him. The guy is 3 inches taller. He couldn't have done more. There was no wide support so it was a good set play that was defended fine. It would have been a run away goal of the week. I'd ask what else could he have done?

    Not a lot. Maybe read the path of the ball better earlier? It was very well played by Marshall.

    Post edited by Brenton at 2012-04-29 20:34:26
  • ynwasouthsideynwasouthside
    Posts: 1,658

    jemal said: ynwasouthside-did you get up on the wrong side of bed or something?JMD is not the savior and he makes mistakes but you really took what I said WAY out of context.If I gave you that impressionetc.then that is my bad.Just wanted to have an honest exchange of views.Thanks for letting me express my thoughts but I won`t continue as it may be taken the wrong way.I am glad that you brought it to my attention.Peace!

    I like Davidson a lot. I just find it really comic that no matter what anybody says about any player, you have to reiterate how great JMD played. I'm not telling you to stop, because it makes me laugh; I just think you should enjoy the other 10 guys play from time to time.

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  • Jay_DukeJay_Duke
    Posts: 1,518

    I'm quite sure JMD is a strong defensive midfielder.

    But we're essentially playing with 5 in the back because JMD barely moves above the back four. That's great in defense, but I'm not sold it's the answer. > slamo said:

    Yes. Exactly. I think Rennie is building an approach that involves asking a lot of the two CB's and JMD to spot in the middle. This has proven to be unbeatable except when Jay had one bad game and then again when Martin had a bad game. If either has a "bad" game I'm pretty sure we've given up several goals. Gersh tends to leave his man - Gavin's long bouncing shot being a perfect example - he drifts out of the game for a second and his man is net side - either he fouls or... Matt likes to get forward and take people on - so like Gersh - loses possession too frequently. As much fun as YP is too watch and despite how good he is - with 7 goals in 8 games (2 off set pieces - 3 if you count the SJ throw-in) more often than not his offensives forays end in 4 players running at three defenders. Personally I'd say without Joe, Jay, Martin, and JMD we'd be at the bottom of the west.

    I agree with you, but I'm starting to get the impression you're a big fan of strong defensive football. ;)

    You've heralded the hard work and smarter defensive play of Chiumiento, and are now singing praises of the big four in the back.

    While I agree that Jay, Joe, Martin, and JMD have been good, my question is this: How the heck do we consistently win against the good teams in this league? We're on less than a goal a game so far this season. And we've played a few dreadful teams. While it's great there's some defensive responsibility from all 11 players, if no one is willing or able to turn and attack we're in for a long and boring year.

  • Bad_GonesBad_Gones
    Posts: 5,825

    Outstanding. Wish we could tailgate near BC Place like that

    ETA: I know this isn't the "Crap on Eric" thread, but he looked pretty happy to me at the end of that video.

    Post edited by Bad_Gones at 2012-04-30 14:50:41
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  • BrentonBrenton
    Posts: 7,054

    Apple didn't fall far from the tree there, wow they look alike.

  • ynwasouthsideynwasouthside
    Posts: 1,658

    Mmm, cevapcici. That's good eating. I've only had the Croatian variety. I'm sure the Serb version is good too, just slightly inferior. ;)

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  • SeathanaichSeathanaich
    Posts: 3,570

    I'm know I'm a big softie, but man, seeing that you just wish those people could have at least seen him get 10 minutes at the end of the game. It's not like Atiba Harris did anything out there.

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  • WhitecatsWhitecats
    Posts: 612

    ynwasouthside said: Mmm, cevapcici. That's good eating. I've only had the Croatian variety. I'm sure the Serb version is good too, just slightly inferior. ;)

    So that's how you spell it! I've only had the Serb variety, due to all our Serb friends. Why don't I think that they would agree with you on which one is better? Better not get into a discussion on which (Croation vs Serb) rakia is better, since I've got a couple of bottles (as presents) of their home made hooch.

    Post edited by Whitecats at 2012-04-30 16:49:09
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  • FootyMonsterFootyMonster
    Posts: 1,298

    In-Laws are both, so I get the best of both. My mother in-law's cooking is fantastic and she can never make enough of the little beef fingers that look like dog turds... Ha!

    Don't even get me started on the hooch! That stuff will destroy you!

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