Gers go into Administration

Canadianspur · Post edited by Canadianspur at 2012-02-14 09:08:36

Saw this in another forum...Don't really follow Scotish Football but this surprised me.

"Rangers are to go into administration after lodging the notice in Edinburgh at Monday lunchtime.

It is understood Gers have five days in which to formally declare administrators have taken over the running of the club.

The Scottish Premier League champions are facing an uncertain future as they await the verdict of a tax tribunal.

The famous Ibrox club could face a bill in the region of £49million should they lose their dispute with HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC).

The club's financial problems are well documented following the decision to sell star striker Nikica Jelavic to Everton in January.

Gers have now shown their hand after lodging an intention to go into administration with the Court of Session."

Scotland09

Sad day for the club, one can only hope that they can use this to sort out their affairs and come back strong in the next couple years.

Looking at the rest of this year, the club will be docked 10 points as per SPL policy regarding clubs in administration putting them 14 back of Celtic. This would also affect their ability to play in the Champions League/UEFA Cup next year as they would need to be out of administration by the end of March to receive a license to compete from UEFA.

GoF

Great news. That's one of the bigot brothers down, one to go.

They've both ruined Scottish football and I will dance on their graves.

If only.

Unfortunately they're not going to die. All they're doing is getting out of paying a huge tax bill. They're just going to throw in the towel this season, then everything will be business as normal next year. Take a one season hit to get out of psying the Scottish taxpayer what they are due.

Motherwell's done it. Dundee's done it. Livingston's done it twice (altho second time they got demoted divisions).

Will it curb their spending? No. Will it stop them buying players from other Scottish clubs and then letting them rot in their reserves whilst killing the other team's growth? No. Will it teach them a lesson? No.

Fuck the Old Firm.

Scotland09

@GOF

Would I be correct to assume you would rather the Old Firm play in the EPL?

Neeskens1974

GoF said: Great news. That's one of the bigot brothers down, one to go.

They've both ruined Scottish football and I will dance on their graves.

If only.

Unfortunately they're not going to die. All they're doing is getting out of paying a huge tax bill. They're just going to throw in the towel this season, then everything will be business as normal next year. Take a one season hit to get out of psying the Scottish taxpayer what they are due.

Motherwell's done it. Dundee's done it. Livingston's done it twice (altho second time they got demoted divisions).

Will it curb their spending? No. Will it stop them buying players from other Scottish clubs and then letting them rot in their reserves whilst killing the other team's growth? No. Will it teach them a lesson? No.

Fuck the Old Firm.

While I agree with the sentiment - and as a moderate Celtic fan, I don't know if Rangers can really recover from this for the foreseeable future. Who has tens of millions to pump into the club? Rangers ain't no Liverpool or MUFC.

It's a terrible situation, Scottish football needs the Old Firm to survive or hemorrhage funds and attendance. On the other hand, maybe this is the point in time when the Old Firm splits and the league goes its own way and Celtic play English League football.

fourfourtwo · Post edited by fourfourtwo at 2012-02-13 10:07:22

It would be one of the neatest sports stories ever if the old firm entered the Blue Square* and started the pyramid from scratch.

Or whatever the first rung would actually be

GoF

Scotland09 said: @GOF

Would I be correct to assume you would rather the Old Firm play in the EPL?

Ideally I'd love them both to just die, but all that would mean would be that their sections of bigoted supporters (which I know are not all Old Firm fans) would just infect other Scottish clubs.

Let them go and join some Atlantic League. They'll never get into England for the foreseeable future.

rovers_adam · Post edited by rovers_adam at 2012-02-13 11:01:33

Old infirm.

Evil_Bert

It has been like a soap opera at times for the Old Firm. They have made numerous attempts to defect the SPL to join the English premiership, and have vetoed ideas to reform the SPL.

In addition both teams have had their share of financial problems. In the ninties Celtic was on the verge of administration before a last minute rescue from Canadian Fergus McCann. Still the club is debt today, though has made progress in paying it off.

Reading some of the stuff today about the Tax bill layed against Rangers, as well as the ongoing problems with Portsmouth, and the recent Redknapp trial makes me realise that there is a lot of dodgy financing going on in football today. In Rangers case it is not dishonest, it's just too clever.

I'm confident they'll get over it, but as Celt fan it pains me to see Rangers be shut out of the title by the tax man rather than the Bhoys beating them of the field (figureativly...ok a literally, players vs players only).

Evil_Bert

For such a small country, Scotland has always over achieved, but in this era of television and big salaries, and big owners it's hard to compete.

The closest Scotland ever got to a daddy warbucks is the Liuthanian Romonov family at Hearts. When they first took over the club they were talking big things and in 2005-2006 were making a serious run at the top before the owners went nuts and sacked George Burley twelves games in the season in spite of an undefeated record. Then its been downhill since. They missed payroll in November and the club is up for sale.

GoF

Doesn't help Hearts that the Gers owe them a million quid for the Lee Wallace transfer. They're not going to be seeing that any time soon.

Dunfermline are also in a perilous state and are owed eighty grand by Rangers. Again, they won't see that soon.

Going into administration is just another selfish act by an old firm team.

SAFC_Yank

GoF said: Doesn't help Hearts that the Gers owe them a million quid for the Lee Wallace transfer. They're not going to be seeing that any time soon.

Dunfermline are also in a perilous state and are owed eighty grand by Rangers. Again, they won't see that soon.

Going into administration is just another selfish act by an old firm team.

Correct me if I'm wrong, GoF, don't the debts to other clubs get settled at the top of the list?

Neeskens1974

SAFC_Yank said:

GoF said: Doesn't help Hearts that the Gers owe them a million quid for the Lee Wallace transfer. They're not going to be seeing that any time soon.

Dunfermline are also in a perilous state and are owed eighty grand by Rangers. Again, they won't see that soon.

Going into administration is just another selfish act by an old firm team.

Correct me if I'm wrong, GoF, don't the debts to other clubs get settled at the top of the list?

Yes, but I think the creditors typically negotiate reductions on those debts in a 'take it or leave it' fashion. There are also debtors who may have contractual priority on repayment.

GoF

Yup, Neeskens is correct.

Both clubs are unlikely to get anything near what they are owed.

The Inland Revenue will be most likely to be top of the list. A ticket agency is the number two owed creditor.

Craig Whyte was on Sky Sports earlier tonight and said the tax debt could reach 75 million pounds with penalties. That's just staggering. How can you let that happen?

JohnnieMonster

Aaargh. We'll likely be in Saudi hands by the end of the season.

Cumbie

Administration could be a barganing ploy by Craig Whyte. The tax case has not been settled yet. If Rangers go into admin, which they very well might, HRMC would only get pennies on the dollar.

cixceven

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17018226

Good FAQ on the situation. Craig Whyte gets the first crack at assets if the company goes into administration, as a secured creditor.

He controls whether it into administration by calling his loan (prior to the tax ruling), and if the tax tribunal goes against Rangers, it won't come due until the administration is finished up. By that point the assets are likely transferred out to a new company, so the claim of HM revenue is against a company with nothing to claim. Smart move by Whyte, from a purely business perspective.

As for the other clubs, it would depend whether they were secured creditors after those player sales. If they were (which is possible), they would get what they are owed. If they aren't, they'd get much much less or possibly nothing at all.

Canadianspur

From some of my reading this morning, much of this problem is due to the imminant court decision over nearly £50m to HMRC due of unpaid tax on player perks etc. if Rangers lose this case in the next week or so, they are liable for the 50m owed, but this could only the test case and if HMRC win.

I am sure all of the clubs in Britain are watching this case very closely. Rangers can't be the only club with potentially dodgy tax treatment of player perks, can they?

ynwasouthside

I don't have any particular dislike of the club, but it is funny to see a financial meltdown of a top SPL side. I was recently reading Hibs supporters slag MLS in the context of a thread about Nana Attakora trialing over there. The comments weren't financial in nature, moreso about the level: kick & chase, technically limited, etc. In addition to being extremely hypocritcal and false, I'd point out that as much as I hate paying good money to watch Jeb Brovsky play, I can forgive the $42k domestics in the sense that they are a necessary evil of keeping the league financially healthy. All the "dumb" rules that we have are generally tied to this goal. Maybe worth thinking about next time we have a thread mocking discovery signings or the rentry draft. If this can happen to Rangers, it can happen to almost any big European club. And this makes me feel pretty good about where MLS will stand in 10 years unless Europe gets it shit together.

Seathanaich · Post edited by Seathanaich at 2012-02-13 14:28:22

The Scottish league is perhaps the least healthy in terms of competitiveness in the world (people in Denmark may disagree). There will only ever be two possible champions in it from now until one of the Old Firm disappears, or they join a pan-national competition of some sort (assuming UEFA and FIFA allowed that).

As an Aberdeen FC "fan", I don't know what you can do about that. You can't "force" 100,000 Rangers and 100,000 Celtic fans across Scotland to start supporting Aberdeen, Dundee United, Partick Thistle, and Hearts. If you could, that league would actually become interesting for supporters. A salary cap is obviously impossible to impose at this point. Competition with the television money going into England is impossible to compete with. Young Scottish players (and coaches) are no longer certain to at least start their careers in Scotland.

For all the warts of soccer in North America, at least we know that the Canadian MLS teams not only have a legitimate shot at the MLS Cup and the Canadian Championship and international competition that leads to. Fans of even the third and fourth "biggest" clubs in Scotland know that such things are, in the 21st Century, nearly impossible.

Many have argued that the Old Firm leaving the Scottish league would be good for it. The other teams would lose the ticket sales from Old Firm games, but would they be replaced by new found interest? Other than the Old Firm, the top division in Scotland is quite competitive and the teams have changing fortunes. Motherwell are currently third; and they plus Kilmarnock and little Saint Johnstone are ahead of the "New Firm" of Dundee United and Aberdeen. Would the increased parity of that type of competition actually drive crowds up? If so, would that compensate for revenue lost from having the Old Firm in the league?

SAFC_Yank

GoF said: Yup, Neeskens is correct.

Both clubs are unlikely to get anything near what they are owed.

The Inland Revenue will be most likely to be top of the list. A ticket agency is the number two owed creditor.

Craig Whyte was on Sky Sports earlier tonight and said the tax debt could reach 75 million pounds with penalties. That's just staggering. How can you let that happen?

Thanks (to you and Neeskens) for the clarification. Much appreciated.

JohnnyRanger

Scottish Football, all of it, is crap from a technical perspective and has for ages.

The Old Firm pretended to play in the UEFA Cup and Champions league from time to time, if only to get some semblance of money into their coffers to abuse the other clubs in the league.

I'm a Rangers man through and through as far as Scottish Football goes and my idols include McCoist, Laudrup, Gascoigne, and others from the heydey that put them in this mess that's coming home to roost.

Whyte is a devil of a man, and I'm not sure about the long term feasibility of the pro game in Scotland. Whyte will do what he wants to make off with the cash on accounting laws etc, the people of scotland will not get their due on taxation, for that you can thank the previous regime of Murray et al.

Sky is the devil.

OldFan · Post edited by OldFan at 2012-02-13 15:11:19

Scottish Football might benefit from losing the Old Firm and building a solid "Teir 2" type league. There must be a lot of people in Scotland that are bored with the same two clubs winning everything for decades into the future? Would it not ignite some interest and push attendances to the point that these clubs could survive in a new SPL? Would I want to buy more tickets to my local club if I knew they actually have a chance to win the SPL and get into early CL qualifying or Europa league? I know I would but how about the person on the street in Scotland.. do they care enough? Or will too many people walk way from SPL without the Firm?

JohnnyRanger

The only good (and they're not very good) players in the league play at the Old Firm, and those that don't get snapped up by the Old Firm or move to England as soon as they get good.

Celtic and Rangers are drawing flies...nobody cares. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Scotland09 · Post edited by Scotland09 at 2012-02-13 15:33:46

JohnnyRanger said: The only good (and they're not very good) players in the league play at the Old Firm, and those that don't get snapped up by the Old Firm or move to England as soon as they get good.

Celtic and Rangers are drawing flies...nobody cares. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Celtic and Rangers are averaging over 46K and 45K respectively this year, that puts them in the same range as Man City and Liverpool (47K and 44K, 4th and 5th in EPL attendance)

The problem is the next highest average attendance is Hearts with only 13K

bili

seathanaich said: The Scottish league is perhaps the least healthy in terms of competitiveness in the world (people in Denmark may disagree). There will only ever be two possible champions in it from now until one of the Old Firm disappears, or they join a pan-national competition of some sort (assuming UEFA and FIFA allowed that).

As an Aberdeen FC "fan", I don't know what you can do about that. You can't "force" 100,000 Rangers and 100,000 Celtic fans across Scotland to start supporting Aberdeen, Dundee United, Partick Thistle, and Hearts. If you could, that league would actually become interesting for supporters. A salary cap is obviously impossible to impose at this point. Competition with the television money going into England is impossible to compete with. Young Scottish players (and coaches) are no longer certain to at least start their careers in Scotland.

For all the warts of soccer in North America, at least we know that the Canadian MLS teams not only have a legitimate shot at the MLS Cup and the Canadian Championship and international competition that leads to. Fans of even the third and fourth "biggest" clubs in Scotland know that such things are, in the 21st Century, nearly impossible.

Many have argued that the Old Firm leaving the Scottish league would be good for it. The other teams would lose the ticket sales from Old Firm games, but would they be replaced by new found interest? Other than the Old Firm, the top division in Scotland is quite competitive and the teams have changing fortunes. Motherwell are currently third; and they plus Kilmarnock and little Saint Johnstone are ahead of the "New Firm" of Dundee United and Aberdeen. Would the increased parity of that type of competition actually drive crowds up? If so, would that compensate for revenue lost from having the Old Firm in the league?

Yes - it's the only league in the world with two teams dominating 8-|

Face facts, nobody cares about the Scottish League. It's barely English Championship calibre other than Rangers and Celtic. If they left, Scottish football would lose the little relevance it has left.

The leagues current Uefa co-efficient is 18th with Rangers and Celtic in the league. It's set to fall even further after it's miracle 10.25 points from 2007-08 fall off the table. SPL will be equivalent to Bosnia, Georgia and Norway. And you entertain the thought of Celtic and Rangers walking?

OldFan

bili said:

seathanaich said: The Scottish league is perhaps the least healthy in terms of competitiveness in the world (people in Denmark may disagree). There will only ever be two possible champions in it from now until one of the Old Firm disappears, or they join a pan-national competition of some sort (assuming UEFA and FIFA allowed that).

As an Aberdeen FC "fan", I don't know what you can do about that. You can't "force" 100,000 Rangers and 100,000 Celtic fans across Scotland to start supporting Aberdeen, Dundee United, Partick Thistle, and Hearts. If you could, that league would actually become interesting for supporters. A salary cap is obviously impossible to impose at this point. Competition with the television money going into England is impossible to compete with. Young Scottish players (and coaches) are no longer certain to at least start their careers in Scotland.

For all the warts of soccer in North America, at least we know that the Canadian MLS teams not only have a legitimate shot at the MLS Cup and the Canadian Championship and international competition that leads to. Fans of even the third and fourth "biggest" clubs in Scotland know that such things are, in the 21st Century, nearly impossible.

Many have argued that the Old Firm leaving the Scottish league would be good for it. The other teams would lose the ticket sales from Old Firm games, but would they be replaced by new found interest? Other than the Old Firm, the top division in Scotland is quite competitive and the teams have changing fortunes. Motherwell are currently third; and they plus Kilmarnock and little Saint Johnstone are ahead of the "New Firm" of Dundee United and Aberdeen. Would the increased parity of that type of competition actually drive crowds up? If so, would that compensate for revenue lost from having the Old Firm in the league?

Yes - it's the only league in the world with two teams dominating 8-|

Face facts, nobody cares about the Scottish League. It's barely English Championship calibre other than Rangers and Celtic. If they left, Scottish football would lose the little relevance it has left.

The leagues current Uefa co-efficient is 18th with Rangers and Celtic in the league. It's set to fall even further after it's miracle 10.25 points from 2007-08 fall off the table. SPL will be equivalent to Bosnia, Georgia and Norway. And you entertain the thought of Celtic and Rangers walking?

All domestic leagues are important to some degree. Saying they are irrelevant because they are 18th or lower (if Firm left), is really bad. Are you one of those people that think leagues only matter if they are top class?

Football needs small leagues, non league, and "irrelevant" leagues like Scotland to be healthy AS A WHOLE.

The_Real_Deal

JohnnyRanger said: Scottish Football, all of it, is crap from a technical perspective and has for ages.

The Old Firm pretended to play in the UEFA Cup and Champions league from time to time, if only to get some semblance of money into their coffers to abuse the other clubs in the league.

I'm a Rangers man through and through as far as Scottish Football goes and my idols include McCoist, Laudrup, Gascoigne, and others from the heydey that put them in this mess that's coming home to roost.

Whyte is a devil of a man, and I'm not sure about the long term feasibility of the pro game in Scotland. Whyte will do what he wants to make off with the cash on accounting laws etc, the people of scotland will not get their due on taxation, for that you can thank the previous regime of Murray et al.

Sky is the devil.

I'm going to call you Johnny Bankrupt! :))

bili

Not at all - I don't think that only big leagues matter at all - how could I? I'm a caps fan. just think that there are many other leagues that have the same issue. Nobody cares about those leagues. Sooner that people realize SPL is the same, the better.

Enjoy the smaller leagues for what they are - decent soccer, passionate fans and 1 or 2 dominant teams.

valleywhitecaps

GoF said: Yup, Neeskens is correct.

Both clubs are unlikely to get anything near what they are owed.

The Inland Revenue will be most likely to be top of the list. A ticket agency is the number two owed creditor.

Craig Whyte was on Sky Sports earlier tonight and said the tax debt could reach 75 million pounds with penalties. That's just staggering. How can you let that happen?

You are right, Hearts will probably see nothing of that money, unless (fingers crossed) Rangers sell Wallace to Aston Villa in the summer (as has been rumoured), and Hearts can somehow negotiate that Villa pays a million of the transfer fee directly to them.

Normally I would love that Rangers are going belly up, but GOF is right, they'll be back in one form or another within a couple of years and nothing much will have changed. Sadly my beloved Hearts will likely have gone bankrupt in the meantime too, and I doubt they will have the same ability to rebound as Rangers do.

rodderzzz

Scotland09 said:

JohnnyRanger said: The only good (and they're not very good) players in the league play at the Old Firm, and those that don't get snapped up by the Old Firm or move to England as soon as they get good.

Celtic and Rangers are drawing flies...nobody cares. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Celtic and Rangers are averaging over 46K and 45K respectively this year, that puts them in the same range as Man City and Liverpool (47K and 44K, 4th and 5th in EPL attendance)

The problem is the next highest average attendance is Hearts with only 13K

not really the truth though, As Celtic and Rangers never sell out unless they play eachother, whereas the capacity at Man City and Liverpool is 47K and 44K.

Scotland09

rodderzzz said:

Scotland09 said:

JohnnyRanger said: The only good (and they're not very good) players in the league play at the Old Firm, and those that don't get snapped up by the Old Firm or move to England as soon as they get good.

Celtic and Rangers are drawing flies...nobody cares. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Celtic and Rangers are averaging over 46K and 45K respectively this year, that puts them in the same range as Man City and Liverpool (47K and 44K, 4th and 5th in EPL attendance)

The problem is the next highest average attendance is Hearts with only 13K

not really the truth though, As Celtic and Rangers never sell out unless they play eachother, whereas the capacity at Man City and Liverpool is 47K and 44K.

That's a fair point. Rangers and Celtic average 90% and 76% of capacity while Liverpool and Man City are both around 98%, I suppose my point was to illustrate that they are not, in fact, "drawing flies".

Steve

Damn. At first glance I thought it said "Let's go to Amsterdam".

rovers_adam

They do pretty well for a country of 5million whose main industries are alcoholism, spousal abuse and handouts from the English.

morbital

and this is why a salary-cap league like MLS is ideal in today's football world...

Whitecats

rovers_adam said: They do pretty well for a country of 5million whose main industries are alcoholism, spousal abuse and handouts from the English.

Add tax evation and replace handouts from the "English" with "Germans" and then you're talking about Greece. Whoops sorry, I've gone off topic...

bili

morbital said: and this is why a salary-cap league like MLS is ideal in today's football world...

Salary cap would help but how do you administer?

I think the difference between us here and soccer fans there is we see the league and that's it. Celtic or Rangers will always win the league.

But as you support smaller clubs you take other things as meaningful. Your derby match. Qualifying for Europa. Getting to the final of the cup. Not being relegated.

So yes - the league is pretty much one or two teams. For example, the Scottish Cup has had Celtic/Rangers final twice in past 20 years (give or take). That means a Hearts, Motherwell, etc has made a run to the final.

GoF

It's great waking up this week.

Now they're officially in administration, have ten points deducted and may not be able to play their game on Saturday if they can't pay the police.

Happy days!

OldFan

bili said:

morbital said: and this is why a salary-cap league like MLS is ideal in today's football world...

Salary cap would help but how do you administer?

I think the difference between us here and soccer fans there is we see the league and that's it. Celtic or Rangers will always win the league.

But as you support smaller clubs you take other things as meaningful. Your derby match. Qualifying for Europa. Getting to the final of the cup. Not being relegated.

So yes - the league is pretty much one or two teams. For example, the Scottish Cup has had Celtic/Rangers final twice in past 20 years (give or take). That means a Hearts, Motherwell, etc has made a run to the final.

sadly, I don't think the EU laws would allow for the type of cap rules we have in North American sports. Caps are certainly needed in most Euro leagues in my opinion.

Whitecats

Rangers should join the 2nd div of the EPL and see if they can advance to the Premier league where they can finally earn some money.

cixceven

OldFan said: sadly, I don't think the EU laws would allow for the type of cap rules we have in North American sports. Caps are certainly needed in most Euro leagues in my opinion.

EU rules might affect some of the drafts, but as far as a simple salary cap? They wouldn't affect it. As long as all EU citizens are treated the same in terms of labour mobility, the EU likely wouldn't poke their nose in it.

Whether is simple cap without all the bells and whistles of the MLS would have the desired effect is a different question.

Neeskens1974

Scotland09 said:

JohnnyRanger said: The only good (and they're not very good) players in the league play at the Old Firm, and those that don't get snapped up by the Old Firm or move to England as soon as they get good.

Celtic and Rangers are drawing flies...nobody cares. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Celtic and Rangers are averaging over 46K and 45K respectively this year, that puts them in the same range as Man City and Liverpool (47K and 44K, 4th and 5th in EPL attendance)

The problem is the next highest average attendance is Hearts with only 13K

Whitecats said: Rangers should join the 2nd div of the EPL and see if they can advance to the Premier league where they can finally earn some money.

At this stage I doubt they would pass the necessary so-called "Fit and Proper" legal and financial ownership requirements imposed by the FA to even qualify - even assuming what you suggest is possible.

Not saying it doesn't make sense, just that RFC are pretty fucked at the moment.

Robchester_2000

The Scots will probably go bananas at this suggestion, but I personally think it will eventually be a British league, as that's the only way you can sustain that many professional clubs in Scotland.

Teams like Rangers and Celtic will be Premier league and the rest of the SPL will end up at a Championship and League 1 type level. Below there will become regional divisions, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, North England, South England.

This couldn't happen now, but will probably happen when FIFA & UEFA get their way and amalgamate the home nations. The Olympic team is a handy warm up to that.

GoF

Which is exactly why the Scottish, Welsh and Irish FA's are against a "British" team.

Robchester_2000

GoF said: Which is exactly why the Scottish, Welsh and Irish FA's are against a "British" team.

Yup. There would be chaos, as you just know that they would split into regional FA's that could never agree on anything.

JohnnyRanger

I've never understood why the United Kingdom is a country, yet there are 4 seperate FA's in England, wales, Scotland and Norn Ireland.

Rangers and Celtic are massive clubs whether you like them or not. If they were able to access the tv money afforded the FA's leagues they would be in the Premier League before long. Not many clubs as large as them have slid out of the Premier League.

The more I read into this situation the more I see it as a legal means of some tax evasion due to shifting around money from pocket to pocket to pocket stemming from overspending in the 90's. Rangers will never cease to exist, they're a cultural instituion whether or not you like them or hate them. I'd say the same about Celtic myself.

Seathanaich

bili said:

Yes - it's the only league in the world with two teams dominating 8-|

I never said that, but it's less competitive than many dominated by two teams, like the Spanish league which has teams like Valencia and even Deportivo winning league titles, or at least challenging for them. I said "least competitive", not "only league in the world with two dominant teams". Please address what I say if you're going to quote me, not some Straw Man claim that I didn't make.

Face facts, nobody cares about the Scottish League. It's barely English Championship calibre other than Rangers and Celtic. If they left, Scottish football would lose the little relevance it has left.

The quality of this opinon is is on par with someone in Europe saying that "nobody cares about MLS".

Brenton

To be fair, most casual fans of the English game in North America probably don't care at all about Scottish football. I know I don't, and I get annoyed when the annual stories about Celtic or Rangers in the Champions League are on the front page of Soccernet, etc. And then Sportsnet shows Celtic v. Leverkusen rather than Valencia v. Sporting (yah, yah, it's about ratings...).

Neeskens1974

Brenton said: To be fair, most casual fans of the English game in North America probably don't care at all about Scottish football. I know I don't, and I get annoyed when the annual stories about Celtic or Rangers in the Champions League are on the front page of Soccernet, etc. And then Sportsnet shows Celtic v. Leverkusen rather than Valencia v. Sporting (yah, yah, it's about ratings...).

I don't know if it still exists, but Celtic TV had most of its subscriber base in North America if I recall - but I take your point.

Having said that, if you ever can witness an Old Firm match....wow....it's phenomenal. The hatred is unbelievable.

Brenton

In the late 90s before I was into European football I drove past Ibrox on the night of an Old Firm match. It was manic, and I had no idea why. I asked my friend if she wanted to go to the game, as if we would have just found some parking and walked up, a couple of clueless twits. She said no, and we probably just went home and drank some beer.

valleywhitecaps

GoF said: It's great waking up this week.

Now they're officially in administration, have ten points deducted and may not be able to play their game on Saturday if they can't pay the police.

Happy days!

This a million times!!

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