There's an expression that goes along the line of "reality is perception". In other words, it doesn't matter which is really better. What matters is what the players believe is better.

And you know how you break mis-perception? You show reality, even if it means forcing people to step outside their comfort zone.

Baseball players would have something to say about this.

Be interesting to know how many baseball players have played on FIFA 2* turf. There aren't many turf fields left, and the buildings they're in are pretty old.

The Polytan LigaTurf 240 RS+ all-weather turf at BC Place really is next generation. It isn't your old black pellets. For one they pave a layer of padding underneath the surface. The pellets themselves are much finer like sand.

The biggest problem with turf is the black pellets all get compacted and it gets hard. This Polytan stuff is suppose to avoid that problem. That and the blades are a different material so they don't burn like fieldturf does.

One thing that I have noticed is that when I play on turf after playing on grass I really notice it, and feel banged up by it, but once I've played on it a few times in a row I don't notice it any more and don't notice any sore joints or anything.

C'mon Oldfan, you're better than this.

Surreysider said: C'mon Oldfan, you're better than this.

Don't demean someone's opinion.

Brettness37 said:

You're confused about the purpose of a discussion forum and a blog. There are a number of guys here that are prolific bloggers, maybe you should set one up for yourself.

I have actually considered it :)

I love that the CSA thinks it's okay to tell the women where to play but not the men.

Well, someone like Forever_A_Team could probably get straight talk from some members of the squad re: the turf in BC Place, since he seems to be quite friendly with some of them. Maybe Piltdownman with some of the CanWNT as well.

I think that most of us will get the "company line" if we were to inquire.

I just wonder if we contacted the players directly and said we really loved them so much and would really, really love to see them play, what would they say? Would they just parrot Hart? Would they just say they don't want to play on turf?

Brenton said: Also, could we aim a campaign at the players?

I was thinking that as well.

The Lions are part of the equation; however the biggest reason for turf is the 300 days BC Place is used for non sporting events.

Forgive my ignorance..

The turf at BC Place? Is it strictly artificial or is it that turf which is a hybrid of grass intertwined with synthetic?

A soon-to-be released 10-year study of injuries throughout the NFL will back the Rooneys’ disdain of artificial turf as unsafe. According to a news item in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (6 November 2011), “Grass is always greener ... and safer [.]

Dan and Art Rooney have long maintained they prefer grass at Heinz Field instead of artificial turf because they believed it to be safer for players. Turns out, the Rooneys were right to resist installing artificial turf, at least as it pertains to player safety. A new, exhaustive 10-year study of injuries throughout the NFL will be released soon and will show that most severe injuries to the knee and ankle occur on artificial turf.” Source: Ed Bouchette, “On the Steelers: Any wonder Baltimore hates us?,” in Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 6 November 2011), available at http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11310/1187621-66-0.stm#ixzz1dHLSUMma .

and the fake turf got denied in Viking land as well but it comes down to dueling studies

“’Medically, FieldTurf has proven to increase risk and severity of injury in NFL players,’ the Vikings said, according to documents filed by the commission in response to FieldTurf’s lawsuit.” “The team cites an NFL study that found the rate of anterior cruciate ligament injuries is 88 percent higher in games played on FieldTurf than in games played on grass.” “FieldTurf says the NFL findings were flawed and points to a pair of studies by Montana State University that declared FieldTurf to be safe. A 2004 study on high school sports and a 2010 study on college sports both found that games played on FieldTurf resulted in statistically fewer and less severe injuries than those played on natural grass; the college study was funded by FieldTurf, but the company did not have access to the data until after the report was published

Keep in mind that is pointy ball football not our type of football. There is also a wide variety of CRAP fake turf getting installed because it is CHEAP. Well you get what you pay for. There are some like Polytan and the Limonta (GeoSafePlay in North America) that are vastly superior to the crumb rubber CRAP that we were on last year and most recreational fields get stuck with because people making the decisions cheap out.

Also keep in mind that the Steelers and lots of top flight Euro teams play and practice on the Deso Grassmaster re-enforced natural grass system with no extra injuries. That of course costs more money and most decisions on this are made for the cheap reasons.

There were studies done when our (Polytan) turf was introduced that showed the turf as being better than grass in regards to ubsorbing shock, running, falling and any impact motions to the turf.

I guess that there is good and bad to everything anyways.

Tim13's post mentions a Montana State study that showed in high school and college, FieldTurf is linked with less injuries than grass.

Not surprised by that. The average high school, and even the average small college, can't do the level of work on a grass field required to keep it smooth and level. My son's club team in the Washington state cup right now. All the practices and matches are on turf. Even bad turf is better than the potential of blowing out an ankle on a rutted, muddy grass pitch.

That isn't quite the same issue at the professional level, the grass is likely to be in good shape. Nonetheless, the gap between grass and high-quality turf continues to narrow.

I don't think players realize how good the turf we have is at BC Place. They are judging it through the lens of other turfs used over the last decade.

I agree with this statement.

Chris,

I think voting them down, in this case, has to do with the opinion expressed and not the people making them.

Much Love,

Forever A Team

If the Whitecaps actually had a few more Canadian players playing on the turf at BC Place, they might be able to pass along to them that it's not as bad as perceived. Russell Teibert can't do it by himself. Unless Canadian Soccer Jesus can lay hands on the turf and turn it in to grass...

That's what I had been proposing, but someone stated there's not enough room to roll a massive tray of real grass out side the stadium. I think where there's a will, there's a way, and they should hire some consultants to study the idea, because, our pitch is really preventing Vancouver from realizing some big dreams of internationals. The Veltans arena in Gelsin Kirchen (Shalke's home) rolls the real pitch outside on a tray and then back in again, so there are examples to study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veltins-Arena

Personally, I prefer grass pitches, but some turf can be a nice surface to play on. Yes, you're more prone to injuries, but if you stretch properly and you're used to playing on turf, it shouldn't be a problem.

I have seen some of my own players get hurt playing on turf, but if you read further into my previous post, they didn't stretch their ankles or certain leg joints/muscles properly. It can happen on grass as well, people just use it as an excuse not to play on turf.

Whitecats said: That's what I had been proposing, but someone stated there's not enough room to roll a massive tray of real grass out side the stadium. I think where there's a will, there's a way, and they should hire some consultants to study the idea, because, our pitch is really preventing Vancouver from realizing some big dreams of internationals. The Veltans arena in Gelsin Kirchen (Shalke's home) rolls the real pitch outside on a tray and then back in again, so there are examples to study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veltins-Arena

No, I'm not saying use a roll-out pitch on the scale of Veltins, Sapporo Dome, or University of Phoenix Stadium. That would require a large area adjacent to the stadium and massive retrofitting of the stadium itself to accommodate it. Because as correctly pointed out, there simply isn't enough room for such a system. I'm talking about a mobile tray system ( http://www.greentechitm.com/slides/popShow.asp?slideShowID=50E1A148-F7C7-419C-829B-66F113ABAD4B) and NOT using it for every game but for the occasional big game, exhibition, and/or national team games. Most league games would be played on the polytan to maximize the flexible use of the stadium.

A tray system can be grown, stored, and used on-site at the training ground then disassembled transported and installed in the stadium when required, then disassembled and transported/installed back at the training ground. The club wouldn't have to purchase and install each time they play a big exhibition or game, saving them in the long-run. It would also give the club the option and availability of grass if they need it at BC Place or any other place for that matter. So if a big team like, for example, Barcelona says "hey we want to have a friendly match with Vancouver but they have a plastic pitch" the 'caps would have grass readily available. The Man City pitch debacle of last year also wouldn't have happened had the 'caps owned such a system.

The stadium wouldn't need a costly retrofitting and the tray system would allow for relatively easy transport and installation. Storing and maintaining the pitch wouldn't be a problem either as a fully functional training ground pitch in the interim (between big stadium events that need grass) - http://www.greentechitm.com/slides/popShow.asp?slideShowID=00C5B203-817A-4DF5-896A-A1704CC55213. IMO this would be an acceptable compromise for both stadium and club.