The Martin Rennie Analysis Thread
  • OldFanOldFan
    Posts: 3,526

    Well, one of my more dreaded and famous threads was the "Soehn Criticism Thread".

    I think Rennie needs a thread of his own for us to discuss how he is doing throughout the year.

    The man doesn't fuck around, that is my first impression. He is moving at a brisk pace in reshaping this team. Whether the players he has or not will pan out remains to be seen, but I give the man credit for making great efforts to change the majority of the roster.

    MOD NOTE: Moved to Whitecaps MLS; Please post in the correct category

    Post edited by piltdownman at 2012-09-19 08:17:51
  • coribacoriba
    Posts: 283

    It concerns me somewhat that he has imported so many Railhawks.

  • mandrewmandrew
    Posts: 182

    I really like how he has shaken things up too. The squad we had last year (as a whole) clearly wasn't good enough as the results showed. Like OldFan says, its too early yet to know if the right changes were made but I am optimistic.

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  • cixcevencixceven
    Posts: 2,559

    I have very little worry about the number of Railhawks for two basic reasons.

    First, Rennie knows them. He plainly thinks they can make an impact at this level; I don't buy the notion of bringing in "his boys" just for the fact of it. Fielding a vastly overmatched squad made up of players brought in as buddies would be a fine way to cut your coaching career short. That's not to say that they will all be successful, just that they won't be coddled leading me to reason two...

    Its really easy in the MLS to get rid of under-performing players (unless these are all guaranteed contracts, which would be moronic beyond what I'm willing to assume).

    Southside Treasurer
  • I like the appearance that Rennie is bringing in 'his' players to fit 'his' style. He appears to be responsible for this year's squad and results. Last year it seemed that TS was bringing in players for TT to work with and it was hard to tell if the players that were brought in, were the players that TT really wanted.

    Member # 334 - Coquihalla Wanderer
  • I think he knows what he's doing... That's a lot more that can be said for Sohen. It is clear that he has a vision and purpose in building his squad and not just randomly getting players. If he can get success in MLS using previous Carolina players,.. WHO CARES!!!

    Post edited by WhitecapsFutbol at 2012-01-20 13:33:35
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    Aside from Barbara, I think most of the guys he's bringing in from the Railhawks are guys he believes do things the right way, and we're most adept at adjusting to his tactics/style.

    Therefor he knows he'll have guys in training that will do things how he wants them to be done, and can shown others what is expected of them......they also providide great pressure on the starters ahead of them, to buy into Rennie's system, as they know there are guys right behind them, willing to play the style he requires, if they aren't willing to do so.

    He's certainly got no intention of just handing anyone a free spot.....even when speaking of the acquisition of Barbara's rights, he referenced him coming off the bench.

    Post edited by Montana at 2012-01-20 13:44:04
  • Good idea, OldFan. Here's part of what I wrote in the international slots thread about Rennie when the criticism of him came up:

    On paper (because we haven't seen some of these guys playing in MLS or North America yet), we look to be a much better team with a lot more depth, although the midfield could use MAYBE another player in the center just in case. Not to mention we seem to have more quality especially at the back, which is something that hurt us on several occasions last year.

    Yes, we have a lot of internationals and quite a few strikers, but it's been mentioned on here, Twitter, and other news sites that Rennie probably has a plan. Maybe selling one of those internationals or strikers for another midfielder? Who knows. All I know is that right now, it's unfair to critique Rennie. Personally I think he's done a bang up job so far.

    Member #629 :: Proud Southsider since August 21st, 2011
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  • rodderzzzrodderzzz
    Posts: 1,280

    The reason we did shite last year was due to really poor management and coaching. Looking at our squad compared to others in MLS and it wasn't that far behind some teams that made the playoffs, the main problem was a lack of depth at the back and midfield, all issues that rennie has addressed. I am fairly confident that we'll do well this season, i think we'll go close to the playoffs and with a little luck might just sneak in their. The main thing that will do us in this year is the fixture changes, meaning we play the west more which is clearly the stronger coast at the moment. If it had have been a balanced schedule I'd be putting money on us now to make the playoffs.

  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    We'll be in the playoffs. Book it.

  • ^I agree with that, but I would measure success more on winning the Vs Cup and/or the Cascadia Cup. I fear this is where we'll fall short. Carolina never did much in the US Open Cup under Rennie.

    twitter: @cnclifford
  • saltybugRsaltybugR
    Posts: 189

    the argument that the Caps will play more games with western team-- which is a stronger division in MLS-- due an unbalanced schedule and hence, make it more difficult to make the playoffs is a worthy point of view... BUT the Caps will be doing far less traveling and that should more than makeup for playing more games against the stronger west teams-- add 2 more quality MF and the Caps can make a run for the playoffs

  • CanadianspurCanadianspur
    Posts: 1,431

    saltybugR said: the argument that the Caps will play more games with western team-- which is a stronger division in MLS-- due an unbalanced schedule and hence, make it more difficult to make the playoffs is a worthy point of view... BUT the Caps will be doing far less traveling and that should more than makeup for playing more games against the stronger west teams-- add 2 more quality MF and the Caps can make a run for the playoffs

    All of our oppoents will have less travel as well so I don't think that our lessed travel will give us any help.

    Member #722
  • SeathanaichSeathanaich
    Posts: 3,570

    Getting back to Rennie . . .

    So far, what he has done is replace most of the players who were fringe or back-up players. He has gone away from the US college-trained players in favour of Div 2 pros he is familiar with. I personally agree that this is probably the better way to go.

    While this has been happening, all the top quality players on the team have been retained.

    While both those things have happened, we all hope that the youth development within the club continues, and that we will be seeing Tiebert on the field this year, hopefully joined by Salgado.

    Pronounced "shaw-neech", with the final 'ch' like that in 'loch'. http://juandefucaplate.ca/
    Vancouver Whitecaps 1978 - Aberdeen FC 1980 - Victoria Vistas 1989 - Victoria Highlanders 2009
  • Seems to act decisively. :)

    Post edited by ynwasouthside at 2012-01-20 15:20:37
    twitter: @cnclifford
  • ChrisChris
    Posts: 5,413

    ynwasouthside said: ^I agree with that, but I would measure success more on winning the Vs Cup and/or the Cascadia Cup. I fear this is where we'll fall short. Carolina never did much in the US Open Cup under Rennie.

    I couldn't disagree more with this. Measuring success on a 4 or 6 game tournament? You're going to see weird things happen based solely on the sample size. That's the problem with determining champions in a playoff. You could have the flu sweep through the Caps dressing room in early May. Dave Gantar could get assigned to all of our games. Any number of things could happen that could see an upset in in a 2-leg semi or final. Over the course of a 34 game season, however, these things tend to balance out. A playoff spot is a vastly better indicator of the club's success than a win streak in May.

    Southsiders' Director of Merchandise - Twitter: @Chris_Withers - Member #180 - 251/4/101
  • Chris said:

    ynwasouthside said: ^I agree with that, but I would measure success more on winning the Vs Cup and/or the Cascadia Cup. I fear this is where we'll fall short. Carolina never did much in the US Open Cup under Rennie.

    I couldn't disagree more with this. Measuring success on a 4 or 6 game tournament? You're going to see weird things happen based solely on the sample size. That's the problem with determining champions in a playoff. You could have the flu sweep through the Caps dressing room in early May. Dave Gantar could get assigned to all of our games. Any number of things could happen that could see an upset in in a 2-leg semi or final. Over the course of a 34 game season, however, these things tend to balance out. A playoff spot is a vastly better indicator of the club's success than a win streak in May.

    I could be wrong, but I think you're talking about measuring improvement. And I agree with this.

    My comment was simply that making the playoffs, but missing out on the Champions League and/or consolation of the Cascadia Cup would not feel as good for me, as if things go the other way around.

    Let's face it, TFC, Montreal and FCE are not very good. We should take this trophy.

    twitter: @cnclifford
  • toffeemantoffeeman
    Posts: 176

    ynwasouthside said:

    ^I agree with that, but I would measure success more on winning the Vs Cup and/or the Cascadia Cup. I fear this is where we'll fall short. Carolina never did much in the US Open Cup under Rennie.

    I am sure Rennie would disagree with you about the measurement of success

  • ChrisChris
    Posts: 5,413

    To each their own, I guess. If you don't make the playoffs in MLS, you're not a very good team. I'd rather see the team be consistently good enough to be top 5 in the conference.

    As for Carolina not being very good in the US Open Cup, I believe they only appeared in the tournament twice under Rennie, and likely would've been facing tough opposition. He probably didn't prioritize the tourney as much as he will the V's Cup, because the path to victory led through places like Seattle.

    Southsiders' Director of Merchandise - Twitter: @Chris_Withers - Member #180 - 251/4/101
  • toffeeman said: ynwasouthside said:

    ^I agree with that, but I would measure success more on winning the Vs Cup and/or the Cascadia Cup. I fear this is where we'll fall short. Carolina never did much in the US Open Cup under Rennie.

    I am sure Rennie would disagree with you about the measurement of success

    I hope you're wrong. Trophies are the measure of success the world over. Playoffs don't mean much in MLS unless you win them. Obviously a playoff team is likely better than a non-playoff team. But that's about it.

    Post edited by ynwasouthside at 2012-01-20 16:06:55
    twitter: @cnclifford
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    V's cup and the Cascadia will certainly be priorities for Martin.

    I'll be surprised if he doesn't bring us one of the two this year, and a playoff spot.

    (#)confidence.

  • Brettness37Brettness37
    Posts: 2,886

    I'd like to see us kill Montreal on March 10, win the Voyageurs and Cascadia Cups. Everything else is gravy.

    - Member #555 - Director of Stadium Ops - Charitable Causes Committee - Sec. 251 Row 3 Seat 1 - Clan: Beaver
  • ChrisChris
    Posts: 5,413

    I want them to be competitive in those tournaments, but if they lose I won't necessarily see it as a failure.

    Southsiders' Director of Merchandise - Twitter: @Chris_Withers - Member #180 - 251/4/101
  • Bad_GonesBad_Gones
    Posts: 5,804

    Wow, we're critiquing a man who hasn't coached a single game with his new team. Harsh.

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  • RoyalcityRoyalcity
    Posts: 289

    Yup, agreed Martin Rennie has been very busy this off season. All these new players seem to have Rennie's fingerprints all over them which makes me wonder just what the fuck is Tom Soehn doing these days?

    Twitter @ferryworker
    # 31
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    Bad_Gones said: Wow, we're critiquing a man who hasn't coached a single game with his new team. Harsh.

    thats not a new thing,

  • ChrisChris
    Posts: 5,413

    Royalcity said: makes me wonder just what the fuck is Tom Soehn doing these days?

    That's not a new thing, either.

    Southsiders' Director of Merchandise - Twitter: @Chris_Withers - Member #180 - 251/4/101
  • Chris said:

    Royalcity said: makes me wonder just what the fuck is Tom Soehn doing these days?

    That's not a new thing, either.

    Lol. You probably could have asked that question of Soehn since about March last year.

  • Montana said: We'll be in the playoffs. Book it.

    My expectations are basically the same, a challenge for a playoff spot is fair in my opinion.

    I just want to share a quick thought on something about Martin Rennie. As we know, Jarju's contract was terminated earlier today. After a bunch of people claimed the front office had more of an input/influence on player signings and who stays and goes than Rennie, we can now say this is probably not true. This appears to be Rennie's team, and this excites me for one reason only, we have a manager with balls and that's massively important. Coaches/managers who are gritty and say it like it is are what bring teams instant success.

    Let's take Juventus as an example. The last few years, we've gone through quite a few managers since Calciopoli (Ranieri, Ferrara, Zaccheroni, Del Neri) and they lacked one thing: A winning mentality, leadership, and not taking the s**t from anyone. In comes Antonio Conte, who a lot of people doubted because he was a young, inexperienced manager. Our team on paper looks inferior to the Milans and Inters of the league, yet here we sit top of the table half way through the season and have the longest undefeated streak in club history.

    If you listen to this guy and see what his philosophy is, you see that this guy is similar to Martin Rennie, this is why I expect a significant turnaround for the Vancouver Whitecaps. We have a manager who cares, who has a great staff backing him up, he isn't a pushover, and most of all, he has the ability to build his team.

    Say what you want, a good team starts from the top. Our front office may have taken some criticism but they did a lot of things right as well. The coach is what comes next. Without leadership from the gaffer, the team falls. That's a big reason why we struggled last year. Now that we have a manager who fits all of the criteria along with a team who can contend for a playoff spot, I say we're almost set for the 2012 season.

    Member #629 :: Proud Southsider since August 21st, 2011
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  • ChristopherChristopher
    Posts: 1,784

    Bad_Gones said: Wow, we're critiquing a man who hasn't coached a single game with his new team. Harsh.

    Remember, this is . . . sigh . . . Canuck Country.

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    2011 was a great year for Canadian football. Rennie arrived.
  • OldFanOldFan
    Posts: 3,526

    Time to bump.....

    Those watching his tactical choices..is he using the players most effectively ?

    How are the players taking to rennie?

  • danrikdanrik
    Posts: 272

    For the most part I am very pleased with his tactical decisions. I am however, disappointed that Koffie has been demoted to the sidelines and that Russell Teibert is now our 3rd choice left back.

  • I'm very satisfied so far. Managers like this almost always succeed and most importantly, the players seem to love him and that makes a massive difference to morale and performance.

    In Rennie We Trust.

    Member #629 :: Proud Southsider since August 21st, 2011
    Football Writer for ChampionsLeague.ca, Forza Italian Football & SoccerSouls
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  • SAFC_YankSAFC_Yank
    Posts: 1,829

    OldFan said: Time to bump.....

    Those watching his tactical choices..is he using the players most effectively ?

    How are the players taking to rennie?

    I think I'd like to see them play first.

    This really is becoming my pet peeve about the 21st century, we think we have a lot of info and we have this desperate need to talk about it NOW!, so we jump to conclusions before we really know eff all.

  • chrisnchrisn
    Posts: 139

    Agreed ... in this on-demand world we push for too much now. Fact is that I'm going to, try and, give Rennie at least 10 games to prove himself. Not only will he need all of pre-season, and the first few games, but he also needs time to fix anything he gets wrong the first time.

    The thing people need to remember is that he's not going to be perfect, no one is, but the measure of the man will be he's ability to learn from mistakes and correct them. If we (and the organization) give him the time to do that, then we can build a manager that will bring us the greatness we so desperately want to see.

    I want to push for a playoff this year, but more importantly, I want to win the MLS cup in the next 5 years!

    East Side on your feet!!!

    Caps Geek #697
  • OldFanOldFan
    Posts: 3,526

    chrisn said: Agreed ... in this on-demand world we push for too much now. Fact is that I'm going to, try and, give Rennie at least 10 games to prove himself. Not only will he need all of pre-season, and the first few games, but he also needs time to fix anything he gets wrong the first time.

    The thing people need to remember is that he's not going to be perfect, no one is, but the measure of the man will be he's ability to learn from mistakes and correct them. If we (and the organization) give him the time to do that, then we can build a manager that will bring us the greatness we so desperately want to see.

    I want to push for a playoff this year, but more importantly, I want to win the MLS cup in the next 5 years!

    We had a top class manager in Teitur and he was hamtrung by the director of soccer ops. I think this year Rennie will have more of a rope to be in charge and won;t have to watch his back. It should be a much more healthy situation.

    I think we will see the MLS cup in the next 3 seasons. Quote me on that.

    Post edited by OldFan at 2012-02-09 00:58:54
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    Looks who's on the bandwagon.....welcome aboard.

  • OldFan said:

    I think we will see the MLS cup in the next 3 seasons. Quote me on that.

    I think I speak for everyone here when I say: Thy will be done.

    Gone fishing...
  • OldFanOldFan
    Posts: 3,526

    Montana said: Looks who's on the bandwagon.....welcome aboard.

    I am starting to support Rennie as much as I supported Teitur. I am certainly on his bandwagon for now. Although, I have plenty of ankle tape if I have to jump off if the season gets off to a poor start.

    Post edited by OldFan at 2012-02-09 10:49:30
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    I think we all recognize you'll jump at any opportunity to get some attention.

    ;)

  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,776

    I say if he doesn't score 7 points from the first three games - we look for a replacement.

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    There's a reason Tom Soehn was kept around.

  • Montana said: There's a reason Tom Soehn was kept around.

    Don't even joke about this!!!!!!

    Member #722
  • DannyBoyDannyBoy
    Posts: 1,094

    RITS

    Re-Instate Tom Soehn

    Post edited by DannyBoy at 2012-02-09 11:46:27
  • slamoslamo
    Posts: 1,776

    ...and you know TS is already in Bobby's ear..."just a tweak Bobby, just a tweak." #-o

    The Three C's: Chill, Clan and Caps.
  • OldFanOldFan
    Posts: 3,526

    slamo said: I say if he doesn't score 7 points from the first three games - we look for a replacement.

    I do not agree with mid season manager sackings.

    Even if we started the first ten games with 3 wins, 3 ties, and 4 losses I would be very pleased with the progress. I am certainly not looking for a one season magical turn around.

  • HammerHammer
    Posts: 1,050

    OldFan said:

    slamo said: I say if he doesn't score 7 points from the first three games - we look for a replacement.

    I do not agree with mid season manager sackings.

    Even if we started the first ten games with 3 wins, 3 ties, and 4 losses I would be very pleased with the progress. I am certainly not looking for a one season magical turn around.

    I'm fairly sure the original comment was sarcastic.

  • BrentonBrenton
    Posts: 7,048

    OldFan said: Even if we started the first ten games with 3 wins, 3 ties, and 4 losses I would be very pleased with the progress. I am certainly not looking for a one season magical turn around.

    Considering that would be a massive improvement over last season and that pace spread over a season would likely get us in the play-offs, I would also be very pleased.

  • SAFC_YankSAFC_Yank
    Posts: 1,829

    Brenton said:

    OldFan said: Even if we started the first ten games with 3 wins, 3 ties, and 4 losses I would be very pleased with the progress. I am certainly not looking for a one season magical turn around.

    Considering that would be a massive improvement over last season and that pace spread over a season would likely get us in the play-offs, I would also be very pleased.

    Through 10 matches last year we had eight points and a goal difference of -3. This despite going without Hassli, DeMerit and Harris (our two biggest salaries and our biggest chunk of MLS experience pre-Vagenas) for large parts of that.

    Given what we hope a much deeper squad, adding four points to that is, mathematically, quite a reasonable target. But again, I'm waiting at least until I can watch the Orlando games to jump on any bandwagons.

    Post edited by SAFC_Yank at 2012-02-09 14:25:21
  • MontanaMontana
    Posts: 1,649

    12 points in 10 games is pretty "meh"....and would still leave you close to the bottom of the league when prorated over the course of a season.

    Rennie's going to have this team producing at a better than 1.2 pt/game rate this season....he's also bringing us a Voyagwrs Cup, abd CCL appearance, year one.

    In Rennie I Trust.

  • BrentonBrenton
    Posts: 7,048

    12 points in 10 games would have been 39 points on the season. We would miss the play-offs but be challenging for them. While I appreciate the optimism around here, I think that's a realistic goal.

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