Hoilett and the Guz...

brrrrrradley

This make anyone want to buy Canada Jerseys? Personally, I am pretty excited by this prospect and look forward to the next time Canada calls up players to see who is on the list.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/11/30/de-guzman-little-brother-hoilett-considering-canada

Canadianspur

It would be a great boost for Canad if JDG2 and Junior played for Canada. Anyone know what it would take for JDG2 to be eligible for Canada again?

ynwasouthside

He just needs a passpot and, assuming he played in an official comp for Holland U23, some FIFA paperwork. Julian confirmed in an interview on the score that the CSA are working on it.

SAFC_Yank

Somebody help me out here ... the story says DeGuzman had to renounce his Canadian passport to become a Dutch citizen.

What's the rule there? Was he just giving up the passport without giving up the claim to citizenship?

My understanding, from what we were told when our oldest was born in Calgary, was that Canada would always consider him Canadian regardless of what another country claimed (in his case, the US).

Lord_Bob

De Guzman has said, literally, "I gave up my Canadian passport" in interviews. The catch is that "gave up my passport" is a fairly common European idiom meaning "gave up my citizenship". A reading of Dutch immigration law shows that De Guzman's giving up his citizenship for the sake of Dutch citizenship is much more likely than merely giving up a little booklet he could replace for ninety bucks.

Brenton

Let the anti-Hargreaves legions unite against this turncoat! Pitchforks at the ready! Burning torches held aloft!

Anyone want to take the first shot? Turned his back, blah blah

Number4

Big thread on the Voyageurs forum about this, lots of interesting discussions about JDG2's requirements for coming back. One person did point out that, if it were as simple as getting a passport once again, de Guzman probably wouldn't have involved the CSA. I'm thinking that he did give up his citizenship to play for the Netherlands and it could take a long time for him to get it back. Only time will tell...

Brenton

Stephen Hart implies that it's more about him having to give up his Dutch passport, which would restrict his ability to play in Spain.

PBandG

Who needs to play in Spain? Come play in Van city!!

OldFan

The guy turned his back on his home country for the golden carrot of playing for Holland. Now that he accepts the reality he is not good enough to be a fixture on their National Team, he is trying to come running back to Canada.

I am not a big "hate the turncoat" type of guy; but I certainly don't have a ton of respect for JDG2 at this point.

Royalcity

OldFan said:
The guy turned his back on his home country for the golden carrot of playing for Holland. Now that he accepts the reality he is not good enough to be a fixture on their National Team, he is trying to come running back to Canada.

I am not a big "hate the turncoat" type of guy; but I certainly don't have a ton of respect for JDG2 at this point.

agreed

OldFan

OldFan said:
The guy turned his back on his home country for the golden carrot of playing for Holland. Now that he accepts the reality he is not good enough to be a fixture on their National Team, he is trying to come running back to Canada.

I am not a big "hate the turncoat" type of guy; but I certainly don't have a ton of respect for JDG2 at this point.

Ok

So, I got a -2 on my post so far.

Let me pose this question.

Why are people so ruthless towards Hargreaves; yet things seem to be "softer" for JDG2.

I would be interested in knowing how people justify the difference.

Lord_Bob

Because Jonathan de Guzman might come back. I think it's pure pragmatism.

Me, I won't forget how JDG2 treated the country of his birth when he thought he might have a chance with the Dutch. But I'd still take him back on the Canadian team, because I'm willing to accept the possibility that people can change.

RaybanOriginal

OldFan

Don't forget JDG2 moved to Holland at 12, that's pretty young, I bet he considers himself 1/2 Dutch. Quite similar to Kevin Aleman (spl?) and his indecision to play for us or Costa Rica.

Hargreaves was in this late teens when he went to Europe.

Blue_and_White_Army

Let's separate international and club football.

Edmonton's Tamandani Wazayo Phillip Nsaliwa (!) renounced his Canadian citizenship several years ago to play club football in Europe, after numerous caps for the Canadian MNT. Is he a traitor too?

Brenton

Burn him!

ynwasouthside

Why can't I just be excited about the prospect of two top players playing for Canada without having to listen to douche bags yammer on about Hargreaves.

Brenton

Are you trying to be reasonable? Burn him!

OldFan

ynwasouthside said:
Why can't I just be excited about the prospect of two top players playing for Canada without having to listen to douche bags yammer on about Hargreaves.

I am not yammering on about hargreaves. I was just posing the question how people seem to have so much hatred for Owen, but are far more accepting of guys like JDG2. It seems like a bit of a double standard and biased against Owen because he was the first "star" we lost. Now that it is more common, people are more accepting of others.

Blue_and_White_Army

If anything, JDG2 would be turning his back on Holland, having played for their youth setup.

FootyMonster · Post edited by FootyMonster at 2011-11-30 14:07:49

Playing for Holland instead of Canada and then switching back to Canada if in fact that is what happens, in both cases is self serving so I don't care. If he and Junior help us win I'm all for it. Canada comes first for me.

Selfish me, I want Canada to win, shit if Owen wanted in I like that too.

Whitecats

And what about Kevan Aleman, will we ever see him in red and white? Or will he follow thru with Costa Rica that world football powerhouse that every player should aspire to?

If Hoilett joins the red and white, I'll eat my blackberry!

OldFan

The number of players abandoning Canada is getting alarming. Losing one guy like OH was something I could live with; but this is becoming chronic.

"Blame the CSA" is such an easy thing to say. But really, what can we do in the next few years?

brrrrrradley

Qualify for the World Cup. That will solve the problem.

Hammer

OldFan said:
The number of players abandoning Canada is getting alarming. Losing one guy like OH was something I could live with; but this is becoming chronic.

"Blame the CSA" is such an easy thing to say. But really, what can we do in the next few years?

What can we do? I would say that we need to field the most competitive team available and try and get better. I don't want to overstate it; but if we do get both of these boys into the fold it may be a turning point in Canadian soccer. Not in the fact that we will automatically win more, but we may quite possibly have up and coming kids actually aspire to play for Canada, (like they do in the US) if these two make commitments to Canada. Others will follow or at least thats what I would hope for.

FootyMonster

Hammer said:

OldFan said:
The number of players abandoning Canada is getting alarming. Losing one guy like OH was something I could live with; but this is becoming chronic.

"Blame the CSA" is such an easy thing to say. But really, what can we do in the next few years?

What can we do? I would say that we need to field the most competitive team available and try and get better. I don't want to overstate it; but if we do get both of these boys into the fold it may be a turning point in Canadian soccer. Not in the fact that we will automatically win more, but we may quite possibly have up and coming kids actually aspire to play for Canada, (like they do in the US) if these two make commitments to Canada. Others will follow or at least thats what I would hope for.

+1 This seems to be the only road to travel. You're right about the importance of this to Canadian soccer, it will change everything.

Thats only of course if it actually happens.

gwallace76

The Hargreaves JDG2 difference for me is about where they chose to play. Hargreaves I feel deserves way more anger thrown his way because he was born here, lived and played in Germany from a young age, but chose to represent England.

JDG2 on the other hand was born in Canada, went to Holland at a young age, and chose to represent them. If JDG2 decided to represent Jamaica or Philippines I'd be more upset.

Anyways Radzinski was a notable absentee for many years and was a great boost in the arm when he came back to the team. Who knows if he didn't hurt himself in 2008 in Montreal what could have been.

BianconeroSouthsider

I'll believe it when I see it. If Jonathan De Guzman does play for Canada, I'll be happy. Highly doubt Hoilett will do the same, and I don't understand why, some say he wants to play for England, but he plays for a team who's in a relegation battle, and even if he stayed in the Premier League, I doubt many top half teams would sign him. I hope he doesn't get an England call, then he'll maybe play for Canada.

Southside_Regular

Anyone else think that we'll either get both of them or neither. JDG2 wants to get in touch with J H to see if he is interested in joining him. Together they can make a difference and the chance of making it to Brazil increases. I'm thinking that JDG2 may change his mind if Junior tells him that he's not ready to commit or is just not interested. Or will it be enough to get a chance to play with his big bro before he calls it quits?

BianconeroSouthsider

When I think it over, these guys were born and raised in Canada. The fact that they're considering it because Canada has "improved" is disgusting to me. This country gave you your life, give something back and represent your damn country! If they both end up rejecting it, I'll lose the little respect I have for them as people.

Lord_Bob

Luckily, this is Canada's worst national team in maybe fifteen years so they're not considering it because Canada has "improved".

OldFan

Lord_Bob said:
Luckily, this is Canada's worst national team in maybe fifteen years so they're not considering it because Canada has "improved".

I think you and I are in the minority that think our national team is not as good as it was a few years ago.

Lord_Bob

Oh, it's definitely a minority. I should add that I think, structurally, Canada's improving; this just happens to be an off-cycle for talent. It should get better going forward.

piltdownman

I would agree. I don't think the individual talent is as good as it has been. I would also agree that it appears that the coaching and support has improved.

slamo

I don't think it's the minority. I think most reasonable fans are looking at 2018, but add Jr and Jono and put DeRo on the bench and 2014 looks better. At least we aren't in the years of looking at young Jaime Peters as the future of Canadian Soccer - by himself.

Dhawk

Blue_and_White_Army said: Let's separate international and club football.

Edmonton's Tamandani Wazayo Phillip Nsaliwa (!) renounced his Canadian citizenship several years ago to play club football in Europe, after numerous caps for the Canadian MNT. Is he a traitor too?
never heard of this guy before, so therefore who cares

slamo

^You missed a great tourney. Even though we didn't win. May be the best soccer Canada has played since 86.

FootyMonster · Post edited by FootyMonster at 2012-03-05 13:28:22

Well looks like DeGuz is back on the fence... figures right?

WTF

EDIT: Um cant see my link now

Brenton

Oh man...

De Guzman reflects on Canada option

I used to not care much about this issue. But De Guzman can fuck off.

BianconeroSouthsider

This doesn't surprise me, he's a douche. Good luck getting into the Dutch squad, Guz. Especially with the plethora of attacking options that Van Gaal has.

limmeister

lol. guy can't make up his mind. can't get onto the dutch squad, so he "ponders" about playing for the nation he was actually born in. wow. hate being second fiddle.

GoF

The media here (and CSA) should be focussing on the young players that want to play for Canada instead of the wankers that don't.

ynwasouthside

Cap that Fraser Aird!

Lord_Bob

I wanted to go out with this girl but she wasn't that interested in me. So I constantly hounded her about going out with me and every time she so much as smiled to me or said "you're a nice guy, but..." I wrote 50,000 newspaper articles and blog posts about how, okay, this is her last chance to go out with me because if she doesn't this time then I don't want her anyway. It was never actually her last chance; that's not the point. And this led to her totally respecting me and being a great girlfriend forever, and not despising me as a spineless moron devoid of self-respect and beneath contempt who would never make the World Cup because I, really and truly, didn't believe I could possibly be a winner on my own.

Then I woke up.

That metaphor may have gotten slightly confused halfway through but NEVER MIND, NEVER MIND.

BianconeroSouthsider

I stuck with it the whole time. I think that this:

GoF said: The media here (and CSA) should be focussing on the young players that want to play for Canada instead of the wankers that don't.

Is what we need to do, but most fans will start to get excited when that girl starts smiling at us again and says hi.

Byndbelief

This discounts him from ever playing for the CanMt now right? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2266989/Robin-van-Persie-joined-Swanseas-Jonathan-Guzman-Holland-squad.html

Subhedgehog

It's a friendly, so, no. But in reality it should close the door.

Lord_Bob

Subhedgehog said: It's a friendly, so, no. But in reality it should close the door.

In reality the door was never open, no matter how much attention Julian de Guzman wanted before major Canadian national team games.

PulovYuran

Byndbelief said: This discounts him from ever playing for the CanMt now right? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2266989/Robin-van-Persie-joined-Swanseas-Jonathan-Guzman-Holland-squad.html

From that article we learn that the squad that DeGuzman is a part of also does not include Robben, Heitinga, Van Der Vaart, or Sneijder. Those 4 guys are mainstays with the national team, so I doubt De Guzman would ever get a shot at the squad with the "real" squad (read: the squad that would play in competetive games).

OldFan

PulovYuran said:

Byndbelief said: This discounts him from ever playing for the CanMt now right? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2266989/Robin-van-Persie-joined-Swanseas-Jonathan-Guzman-Holland-squad.html

From that article we learn that the squad that DeGuzman is a part of also does not include Robben, Heitinga, Van Der Vaart, or Sneijder. Those 4 guys are mainstays with the national team, so I doubt De Guzman would ever get a shot at the squad with the "real" squad (read: the squad that would play in competetive games).

He will be an occasional call up for friendlies or "B" level type of squads. Was it really worth turning your back on your country just for that?

Byndbelief

PulovYuran said:

Byndbelief said: This discounts him from ever playing for the CanMt now right? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2266989/Robin-van-Persie-joined-Swanseas-Jonathan-Guzman-Holland-squad.html

From that article we learn that the squad that DeGuzman is a part of also does not include Robben, Heitinga, Van Der Vaart, or Sneijder. Those 4 guys are mainstays with the national team, so I doubt De Guzman would ever get a shot at the squad with the "real" squad (read: the squad that would play in competetive games).

I agree, but I thought that once he played for the senior nation team, he would not be allowed to "re-choose" a national team to play with.

Subhedgehog said: It's a friendly, so, no. But in reality it should close the door.

This answered that question I think

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