99th (2012) US Open Cup [R]

piltdownman · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2013-02-26 22:19:45

Now that the Sounders have won the 2011 US Open Cup Time to look forward to next season.

There is talk about the format changing: http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2011-10-05/us-open-cup-should-be-revamped-for-12#ixzz1a57WdOlM

Currently the home team is determined by a bid process. So the team that is willing to pay more always hosts. Thsi is why the Sounders play every match at home in the Cup. The USSF is looking to change this to make it more balanced.

Also there is talk of 16 MLS clubs joining at the same stage. As a point where there are 16 non-MLS teams remaining. It is unknown if it will be seeded at this draw to make it MLS vs Non-MLS, but we can only hope it's a straight draw.

Blue_and_White_Army

I really hope these rule changes go ahead. One of the highlights of the English FA Cup is seeing little clubs host the big boys. Would love to see an MLS club have to travel and play on a USASA (D5) or PDL (D4) pitch.

Hoping NASL (D2) clubs can compete again in 2012 (they were not allowed to enter in 2011). Would also like to see the other D5 league umbrella (US Club Soccer) have clubs compete to join as well, to increase the talent of the D5 pool.

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-01 15:58:14

First- and second-round pairings:

http://thecup.us/2012-us-open-cup-first-round-matches-unveiled-for-may-15-second-round-pairings-set/

I'm hoping to get down to the Kitsap vs. D5-club-TBC match on May 15th (cough GoF cough). :P

Lord_Bob

Blue_and_White_Army said: First- and second-round pairings:

http://thecup.us/2012-us-open-cup-first-round-matches-unveiled-for-may-15-second-round-pairings-set/

I'm hoping to get down to the Kitsap vs. D5-club-TBC match on May 15th (cough GoF cough). :P

Watching big-time American cup action? Why not support local soccer, you glory hunter? >:(

Blue_and_White_Army

Lord_Bob said: Watching big-time American cup action? Why not support local soccer, you glory hunter? >:(

Nothing says big-time like "DV8 Defenders".

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-14 16:46:20

The first round of the US Open Cup is tomorrow. Here's a map of all 2012 US Open Cup entrants:

Here's a competition bracket, and information about all 16 of the first-round matches.

Fullerton Rangers (NPSL) vs. Ventura County Fusion (PDL) is the only first-round match with known streaming video thus far - kick-off is at 7pm PT.

The website thecup.us (run 100% by volunteers, not the USSF) has excellent profiles on all of the D5 clubs that participate in the competition (called "Meet the USASA"), which makes for some very interesting reading.

SAFC_Yank

I'll be about five miles from Fullerton's home ground ... about 15 hours too late.

Blue_and_White_Army

"On Tuesday evening, the well-established reigning USL Premier Development League champion Kitsap Pumas will play host to an unknown club built by a famous face, a team about second chances. That team is Cal FC."

http://thecup.us/2012-meet-the-usasa-eric-wynaldas-cal-fc-from-thousand-oaks-ca/

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-15 19:10:53

Already one upset tonight: Aegean Hawks FC of Washington DC (amateur; D5) beat Carolina Dynamo (USL PDL; D4) by a 3-1 scoreline. Aegean will host Richmond Kickers (USL Pro; D3) next Tuesday.

Richmond won the US Open Cup in 1996, and made it to the semi-finals last year (knocking out MLS clubs Columbus Crew and Sporting Kansas City).

Live scores can be found on this web page, if you activate the "live blog".

Live video stream of Ventura County Fusion (USL PDL) vs. Fullerton Rangers (NPSL) here: http://livestream.com/kidzsportszone

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-15 20:38:01

Half-time: Portland Timbers U23s (D4) 0-2 PSA Elite (D5). Winner plays away to Carolina Railhawks (D2) next week.

Half-time: Kitsap Pumas (D4) 0-1 Cal FC (D5). Winner plays away to Wilmington Hammerheads next week.

Result: Real Colorado Foxes (D4) 1-3 KC Athletics (D5). Athletics will play away to Orlando City (D3) next week.

Early in extra time: Laredo Heat (D4) score to make it 3-2 against ASC New Stars (D5). Winner plays away to Wesley Knight's San Antonio Scorpions (D2) next week.

Blue_and_White_Army

Final: Portland Timbers U23s (D4) 1-3 PSA Elite (D5). PSA Elire play away to Carolina Railhawks (D2) next week.

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-22 15:47:30

Second round tomorrow (Tuesday, May 22nd). USL Pro (D3) and NASL (D2) clubs enter. The tastier fixtures (in my opinion) are:

Georgia Revolution (D4/NPSL) vs. Atlanta Silverbacks (D2/NASL) - winner plays Seattle Sounders
Aegean Hawks (D5) vs. Richmond Kickers (D3/USL Pro/2011 US Open Cup semi-finalist) - winner plays DC United
Carolina RailHawks (D2/2011 NASL regular-season champions) vs. PSA Elite (D5) - winner plays LA Galaxy (2011 MLS champions)
Wilmington Hammerheads (D3/USL Pro) vs. Cal FC (D5, managed by US soccer legend Eric Wynalda) - winner plays away to Portland Timbers
Orlando City (D3/2011 USL Pro champions) vs. KC Athletics (D5) - winner plays Sporting KC
Des Moines Menace (D4/USL PDL) vs. Minnesota Stars (D2/2011 NASL champions) - winner plays Real Salt Lake (2009 MLS Cup winners)

A list of video streams will be posted on thecup.us sometime Tuesday morning/afternoon.

SAFC_Yank

One other match of some note: Dayton (USL Pro) at Chicago Fire PDL (PDL).

Dayton's leading goalscorer is Gibson Bardsley, who played at Western Washington and played a year of PDL with Abbotsford. However, he's also their ONLY goalscorer this season, with two.

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-22 09:47:37

SAFC_Yank said: One other match of some note: Dayton (USL Pro) at Chicago Fire PDL (PDL).

Dayton's leading goalscorer is Gibson Bardsley, who played at Western Washington and played a year of PDL with Abbotsford. However, he's also their ONLY goalscorer this season, with two.

Dayton Dutch Lions were pretty dire last year, weren't they? They look to be about the same this year, so this is a good bet for an "upset" - thanks for the tip.

However, Chicago Fire PDL haven't played any 2012 league matches yet, so team chemistry could be an issue for them, especially if they have many new players for 2012 (which I'm not sure about).

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-22 16:14:10

Preview and live blog/chat (latter goes live at 3:30pm PT): http://thecup.us/2012-us-open-cup-second-round-preview-and-live-blog-630-p-m-et/

Internet streams confirmed thus far:

Video:

4:30pm PT - Charleston Battery (D3/USL Pro) vs. Reading United AC (D4/USL PDL) - USLNation.com
4:35pm PT - Rochester Rhinos (D3/USL Pro) vs. Brooklyn Italians (D4/NPSL) - USLNation.com

Audio:

4:00pm PT - Chicago Fire PDL (D4/USL PDL) vs. Dayton Dutch Lions (USL Pro) - Chicago-Fire.com

Blue_and_White_Army · Post edited by Blue_and_White_Army at 2012-05-22 16:30:33

Moar streams!!!!!

Video:

4:30pm PT - Georgia Revolution (D4/NPSL) vs. Atlanta Silverbacks (D2/NASL) - Online Video

Audio:

5:00pm PT - Los Angeles Blues (D3/USL Pro) vs. Ventura County Fusion (D4/USL PDL) - Online Radio

Blue_and_White_Army

Half-time: Wilmington Hammerheads (D3) 0-2 Cal FC (D5). Winner plays away to Portland Timbers of MLS.

SAFC_Yank

thecup.us/2012-us-open-cup-second-round-san-antonio-scorpions-handily-beat-the-laredo-heat-3-1-in-first-ever-open-cup-match/

San Antonio match report, includes quotes from Harmse and Knight.

vancouversoccerman · Post edited by vancouversoccerman at 2012-05-23 11:16:50

Seattle has paid off the Atlanta Siverbacks to get home field advantage for their US Open Cup fixture.

http://www.atlantasilverbacks.com/pro/news/Statement-Released-on-Venue-Change

I think this throws the legitimacy of the competition into question.

Brenton

Except that it's apparently entirely within the rules of the competition.

Blue_and_White_Army

Yup - the USSF are the baddies here...

cixceven

Wow. The fact that Atlanta is giving free tickets to a game and gets to host "a MLS team" for an exhibition game next year... They obviously see the risk they are taking alienating fans.

On the other hand, the payday that they might get from this, over the long term, might prove far more valuable than what they would have taken in at their gate.

vancouversoccerman

I hear you on the USSF...but the inducements alone harm the integrity of the competition. Might be worth seeing what players they pick up with the cash, and how seriously they take the Seattle match now.

GoF

I'm wondering if some Seattle fringe and development players may find their way on loan to Atlanta down the road.

vancouversoccerman

GoF said: I'm wondering if some Seattle fringe and development players may find their way on loan to Atlanta down the road.

My thoughts exactly.

Blue_and_White_Army

cixceven said: Wow. The fact that Atlanta is giving free tickets to a game and gets to host "a MLS team" for an exhibition game next year... They obviously see the risk they are taking alienating fans.

On the other hand, the payday that they might get from this, over the long term, might prove far more valuable than what they would have taken in at their gate.

But how many first-time fans would a competitive match against an MLS club attracted? And how many of their current season-ticket holders are not renewing for 2013 - the negativity on the Silverbacks' Facebook page is staggering.

SAFC_Yank

On the flip side, its an interesting measure of how seriously the Sounders take the US Open Cup, unlike a number of MLS teams. They're playing at Starfire, so it isn't like there is going to be massive revenue gained from the move.

vancouversoccerman

SAFC_Yank said: On the flip side, its an interesting measure of how seriously the Sounders take the US Open Cup, unlike a number of MLS teams. They're playing at Starfire, so it isn't like there is going to be massive revenue gained from the move.

Not from the match itself, but Seattle does gain a lot from the Champions League matches they've played from winning the US Open Cup. Atlanta on the road meant cross-country, mid-week travel against a team that's capable of beating them on an off day. Now, everyone gets to rest, Atlanta takes the long trip and the Sounders enjoy home field. Hell, why wouldn't they pay for that?

SAFC_Yank

vancouversoccerman said:

SAFC_Yank said: On the flip side, its an interesting measure of how seriously the Sounders take the US Open Cup, unlike a number of MLS teams. They're playing at Starfire, so it isn't like there is going to be massive revenue gained from the move.

Not from the match itself, but Seattle does gain a lot from the Champions League matches they've played from winning the US Open Cup. Atlanta on the road meant cross-country, mid-week travel against a team that's capable of beating them on an off day. Now, everyone gets to rest, Atlanta takes the long trip and the Sounders enjoy home field. Hell, why wouldn't they pay for that?

Fair points.

Brenton

Blue_and_White_Army said:

But how many first-time fans would a competitive match against an MLS club attracted? And how many of their current season-ticket holders are not renewing for 2013 - the negativity on the Silverbacks' Facebook page is staggering.

Exactly. Instead they get "better players" and a friendly against an MLS side, likely the reserve players. Woo.

ClaytonA

It's kind of like Montreal throwing the game against TFC in 2009 though...

However accurate it is, the book Soccernomics listed home field advantage (for internationals) as worth a lead 0.67 of a goal statistically.

Good for the Sounders for doing everything they can to win, but the USSF should change the rules to not allow these negotiations.

Anecdotely I've heard these venue changes are also allowed in the Scottish Cup - what affect do venue changes have in that competition?

Brenton

There are some venue changes in the FA Cup too, usually for security or safety reasons. I'm sure there's some gaming of the rules there. But at least it's against the rules.

vancouversoccerman

The changes are done in the UK usually because the smaller club can't safely hold the match, or cover the policing costs. While smaller clubs will sometimes create these conditions to get the payday, they certainly don't receive any of the inducements given here. It also happens with clubs where the gulf is three or more divisions.

In this case, Atlanta is certainly capable of hosting this match, both from a stadium & fan revenue perspective.

GoF

yeah, policing costs and safety are the main factors with the smaller Scottish clubs.

It's still rare for a tie to be moved to the venue of the bigger team though. Mostly it is moved to a larger neutral venue.

Blue_and_White_Army

GoF said: It's still rare for a tie to be moved to the venue of the bigger team though. Mostly it is moved to a larger neutral venue.

And usually very close to the home club.

SAFC_Yank

I seem to recall an FA Cup game in about 2002 where Arsenal convinced a non-league side to give up hosting in favor of playing the game at Highbury. In that case, it was largely because the non-league side was going to get a far larger monetary bonus from it, and the FA pretty well said they wouldn't allow it to happen in so blatant a fashion again.

Blue_and_White_Army

SAFC_Yank said: I seem to recall an FA Cup game in about 2002 where Arsenal convinced a non-league side to give up hosting in favor of playing the game at Highbury. In that case, it was largely because the non-league side was going to get a far larger monetary bonus from it, and the FA pretty well said they wouldn't allow it to happen in so blatant a fashion again.

Non-league Yeading had to host at QPR's Loftus Road against Newcastle United a few years after that...

SAFC_Yank

Blue_and_White_Army said:

SAFC_Yank said: I seem to recall an FA Cup game in about 2002 where Arsenal convinced a non-league side to give up hosting in favor of playing the game at Highbury. In that case, it was largely because the non-league side was going to get a far larger monetary bonus from it, and the FA pretty well said they wouldn't allow it to happen in so blatant a fashion again.

Non-league Yeading had to host at QPR's Loftus Road against Newcastle United a few years after that...

Slightly different, because like what GoF said, neutral site, and as you noted, much closer to Yeading. I think the FA was upset Arsenal had essentially bought the home site, much like the Seattle case.

Blue_and_White_Army

I realize it's different; it was likely a response by the FA to the Arsenal affair.

vancouversoccerman

Carolina Railhawks 2. LA Galaxy 1

Ouch.

vancouversoccerman

Houston Dynamo. 0. San Antonio. 1

Seems there's a new Battle of Texas!

Chris

Chicago Fire and Columbus Crew also lost to the Michigan Bucks (PDL) and Dayton Dutch (USL Pro) respectively. Dallas and RSL are currently losing.

ClaytonA · Post edited by ClaytonA at 2012-05-29 20:14:20

6 of 11 MLS teams have lost. (Columbus, LA, RSL, Chicago, NE Revs, Houston) Ft Lauderdale leading San Jose.

http://thecup.us/

Chris

Twitter is amusing me right now. On the one hand are folks shocked that players 20-30 on the roster of 6 MLS clubs got beat by opposition from lower leagues. On the other hand are people crying "LOOK! LOOK HOW GOOD THE LOWER LEAGUES ARE", seemingly oblivious to how little the MLS teams actually care about this tournament.

vancouversoccerman

Chris said: Twitter is amusing me right now. On the one hand are folks shocked that players 20-30 on the roster of 6 MLS clubs got beat by opposition from lower leagues. On the other hand are people crying "LOOK! LOOK HOW GOOD THE LOWER LEAGUES ARE", seemingly oblivious to how little the MLS teams actually care about this tournament.

The upsets are good for the lower leagues. And to an extent it exposes the lack of bench strength on a lot of MLS sides. It would help the Cup a lot if MLS supporters cared more about it.

DannyBoy

So I guess we should take solace in the fact we lost the championship to a lower level team :P

ClaytonA · Post edited by ClaytonA at 2012-05-29 20:35:27

Chris said: Twitter is amusing me right now. On the one hand are folks shocked that players 20-30 on the roster of 6 MLS clubs got beat by opposition from lower leagues. On the other hand are people crying "LOOK! LOOK HOW GOOD THE LOWER LEAGUES ARE", seemingly oblivious to how little the MLS teams actually care about this tournament.

Some truth to this.

But also don't think RSL wanted to lose to Minnesota Stars. They bought the right to host. Also looking at the stream and pre-game press pkg they fielded pretty much the same line up as that they used against FC Dallas excepting:

Johnny Steele for Will Johnston (International Duty)

Paulo Junior for Alvaro Saborio (International Duty)

Minnesota was pretty good and hasn't lost since last October. Some of these upset are a legit.

GoF

Chivas and San Jose have pretty strong line ups out in the last two games of the night.

San Jose currently losing 1-0 at home to Fort Lauderdale Strikers.

Chivas winning 1-0 at Ventura County Fusion of the PDL.

Brenton · Post edited by Brenton at 2012-05-29 20:54:57

1230 viewers of the livestream of the SJ-FL game.

EDIT: SJ just tied it up, 63rd minute.

Blue_and_White_Army

7 of 14 MLS clubs that played tonight were knocked out.

Best match of the round is Wednesday: Portland Timbers host amateur club Cal FC (D5). Only once has an amateur D5 club beaten an MLS side.

Brenton

Here's the full bracket: http://thecup.us/2012-us-open-cup-bracket/
At least two lower division teams will make it to the quarters.

Here's a great piece on Eric Wynalda and Cal FC: Major League Soccer’s errant son returns to teach it a lesson

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